QJs UTG vs. TAG

witeknite · #1 10-13-2005, 12:42 PM

MP is 27/15 over a smallish sample.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises, MP 3-bets, 1 fold, Button calls, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (10.33 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.66 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP raises, Button folds, Hero calls.

River: (10.66 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.66 BB

#2 10-13-2005, 01:08 PM

Looks good. Not sure how you can play it much different. I might have gone for the turn c/r. If the button calls behind the MP we're almost certainly ahead of the button and drag in another bet. If the MP 3-bets, the button faces 2 more cold which is good (though the 3-bet isn't good news for us). If instead the button faces us with 2 bets, we can pretty safely fold figuring he's made 2 pair or a straight (since he looks very passive).

krishanleong · #3 10-13-2005, 01:10 PM

Just check call the turn down. Think about his range here. In fact, post me what you think his range is here.

Krishan

Victor · #4 10-13-2005, 01:14 PM

gross. i hate the donk bet and its an easy river fold.

witeknite · #5 10-13-2005, 01:26 PM

AA-TT, maybe 99 and 88. AK down to maybe AT. KQ, maybe KJs. This is before I act on the turn. His turn raise narrows it down some.

AA - 9 outs - 6 combos
KK - 9 outs - 6
QQ - 4 outs - 3
JJ - 4 outs - 1
99 - 4 outs - 3
88 - 4 outs - 3
AJ - 7 outs - 5
AJ [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] - 5 outs - 1
KJ - 7 outs - 5
KJ [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] - 5 outs - 1

34 hands likely hands that I am behind to.

I'm ahead of
AK, AQ, TT.

34 combos there.

Looks like I'm 50/50 to be drawing to 4-9 outs.

WiteKnite

witeknite · #6 10-13-2005, 01:28 PM

Is it still a river fold if I c/c the turn?

WiteKnite

Victor · #7 10-13-2005, 01:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is it still a river fold if I c/c the turn?

WiteKnite

[/ QUOTE ]

no.

Lmn55d · #8 10-13-2005, 03:13 PM

I don't really see what everyone's problem is with the turn donkbet. You are ahead of AK, AQ, and TT which is 34 combinations. You are behind 99, JJ, QQ, KK, AA, and AJ which is 27. He's usually not betting AK, AQ right? TT is usually betting so that brings the betting combos to 33 and checking that you are ahead of combos to 28. Plus if he raises you can fold the river unimproved for the same amount. I think the main problem is how much a free card hurts you vs. the lost of a large portion of 1 sb (you will improve sometimes but you are often very behind). It seems to me that the free card hurts a ton. The button will bet it sometimes that PFR 3bettor checks and you can checkraise him there so that mitigates it somewhat. Anyone else have any thoughts>

EDIT: If you think villain bets AK/AQ here a reasonable amount of time...probably something like 20%+, a bet then seems dumb.

wackjob · #9 10-13-2005, 03:38 PM

I think a turn c/r would have been my play with the intent to call a 3-bet and fold the river UI.

Lmn55d · #10 10-13-2005, 03:39 PM

checkraising the PF 3bettor is definitely very excessive and doesn't solve the free card problem I'm worried about. I am talking about checkraising the button if you do check, PF 3bettor checks, and he bets. I think betting out is the best option though.