Anticipating a split...

[incognito]

Online .50/1.00. I've been playing at this table for awhile and my opponents are your typical tenacious-but-lacking-good-judgement low limit types. I'm UTG with K [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img]. I limp, middle position guy (MP) limps, button limps, small blind completes, big blind checks. 5 to the flop.

The flop comes K [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img]. Checked to me and I check. This is unusual for me; usually in an online low limit game I just bet out when I've got a hand. I find I get callers anyway. I don't really know why I checked this time. How do others play this?

Anyway, MP bets, button calls, small blind calls, big blind folds, I call, intending to check raise on the turn.

The turn comes J [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img], putting two pair on the board. The small blind comes out betting. Now I guess I had no reason to suspect he had the king, but I was thinking that a raise here would knock out the other two guys, but if I called they'd come along. Since at least two of my three opponents were putting dead money in the pot, I just called, figuring that I'd do best this way if I was splitting and probably close to it even if I wasn't. The other two called as expected.

The river is a rag, the small blind bets, myself and the other two call. My full house is good. Small blind had a jack, the others had a small pocket pair and a bare ace.

So, should I have put in a raise somewhere? If my raise knocked out the two behind me, I would have had to get a lot of action from the small blind to make up for it. What do you think?

[bernie]

i think it was ok...a raise here may have killed much of your action other than the guy with the J. the time to bet it wouldve been the flop. this is kind of like my 'tactical play gone sideways' post.

however, if you know its a split and there are a few inbetween you, then id raise. especially if i thought theyd come along also, that way your building your split pot.

what really sucks is when you and another player turn the nut str8, you know other guys are calling a flush draw or other draws, and your splitting partner stops betting with you. ive yet to understand the guys who do this. but it's a small consolation that theyd probably let you draw for cheap too.

but it still sucks

b

[Dynasty]

Start raising pre-flop with KQs.

Your turn and river calls worked perfectly.

It's worth noting that getting into a raising war with anybody holding KT-K2 is a freeroll for you. His final hand is definately going to be KKKJJ. But, if a Queen comes on the river, you'll have KKKQQ. That Queen will come about 7% of the time.

The above point is important in a situation in which you have a hand such as 98 on a 9988 board. If somebody keeps raising and re-raising you, you should slow down even though your can be 100% sure you have the nuts. Somebody with a 9 and a kicker Ten or higher is getting the best of you. He has 3 outs to win the entire pot (his kicker) whereas you only have 1 out to win the entire pot (the 8).

[CrackerZack]

I would think a raise on the flop makes the most sense after checking since they're already trapped for 1 bet and will pay the second. If you're sure MP will bet again on the turn, the turn CR is a good plan but I find in LL, most will check in this situation. After the SB comes out, going for the overcalls is probably right, if both fold, raise the river.

[bernie]

i didnt think of the freeroll aspect of it. especially for both sides....

b

[SoBeDude]

I think you really missed a raise on the river.

I agree with your logic that by keeping in the callers you made more money than you would have by raising them out of the pot. the SB would not have made up the difference.

But why no raise on the river? Worst case the callers all fold.

Best case any extra money is either yours of half-yours.

-Scott

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Someone called with a small pocket pair? They couldn't even beat the board? I see no place in this hand where you would have made any more money by having raised. You gained FOUR big bets by simply going for the overcall twice. Anything other than that would not have gotten you four big bets. So you played it perfectly, even if it seemed like you played it wimpily. Great job.

al

[34TheTruth34]

But why no raise on the river? Worst case the callers all fold.

I think you misread the post. Keep in mind that he is UTG and the SB has bet the turn and river (whereas a MP player bet the flop). Therefore, if he raises on the river like you're suggesting what do you think all the callers after him are going to do? (one with ace high and the other clown with a small pocket pair, apparently playing the board). Those players haven't put any money in on the river yet and they certainly aren't going to if it's two bets cold to them. It sure looks like the SB has a king and that he is going to split. Why not go for the overcall here? I think he played it perfectly. Like one poster already said, there is no way he could have made any more money on the hand.