River Call - worth or not ?

Interested · #1 10-06-2005, 08:57 AM

Hi all,

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls, 4 folds, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, UTG calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP3 checks, CO checks.

River: (6.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

Here is my todays play. As a result I saw that I droped the best hand. So in this situation would you call with your knowledge and experience?

As for the reads:
The river betor is 40/4/0.8
his first caller is 55/10/1.5
The second caller is TAA

poboys · #2 10-06-2005, 09:21 AM

Don't indicate the results in your post. Lead the turn.

thejameser · #3 10-06-2005, 12:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Don't indicate the results in your post. Lead the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

#4 10-06-2005, 11:07 AM

Nobody has shown you they definitely have a queen by raising you on the flop, so I'd bet the turn as well. After the turn was checked through, I'd bet the river being very close to certain of being ahead.

hobbsmann · #5 10-06-2005, 11:14 AM

bet/fold the turn.

Nick C · #6 10-06-2005, 11:38 AM

There are a lot of straight draws that are possible on the flop (KJ, J9, and 98 -- and that's just the OESDs and double-gutters). That said, I'm not feeling too good when I get called in all three places with a queen overcard on the board, and it doesn't cheer me up any when the ten on the board pairs. (One thing to note, too, is that since you hold two of the jacks, the chances that your opponents have straight draws are diminished, somewhat.)

In any event, I can see why you checked the turn. Perhaps betting is better against these opponents (I'd imagine the first two peel kind of loosely), but you are going to be behind a lot of the time.

Anyway, on the river, I wouldn't expect to be able to overcall the TAG's overcall and win. (Edit: Then again, I wouldn't expect him to check behind with a queen on the turn, so it's hard to say what he has. Still, I don't think you'll be ahead all that often with your jacks-up on this board, after a bet and two calls. I guess the lack of action on the turn sort of suggests you could be ahead, though.)

#7 10-06-2005, 12:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
There are a lot of straight draws that are possible on the flop (KJ, J9, and 98 -- and that's just the OESDs and double-gutters). That said, I'm not feeling too good when I get called in all three places with a queen overcard on the board, and it doesn't cheer me up any when the ten on the board pairs. (One thing to note, too, is that since you hold two of the jacks, the chances that your opponents have straight draws are diminished, somewhat.)

In any event, I can see why you checked the turn. Perhaps betting is better against these opponents (I'd imagine the first two peel kind of loosely), but you are going to be behind a lot of the time.

Anyway, on the river, I wouldn't expect to be able to overcall the TAG's overcall and win. (Edit: Then again, I wouldn't expect him to check behind with a queen on the turn, so it's hard to say what he has. Still, I don't think you'll be ahead all that often with your jacks-up on this board, after a bet and two calls. I guess the lack of action on the turn sort of suggests you could be ahead, though.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah, didn't see the straight the river made, but I still reckon you're ahead more than enough times to make the call profitable.

#8 10-06-2005, 12:12 PM

I think you should have lead out on the flop. If you get called in more than one place then you slow down, or you can even fold if reraised. With the action the way it was, seems like an easy call, or even a reraise for me. The beautiful thing about limits this low is that people will call you down with absolutely anything, so you need to value bet more.

Fat Nicky · #9 10-06-2005, 12:25 PM

Being called in 3 spots w/an overcard on board sucks on the flop, and the 2nd card pairing on the turn sucks even more. However, I think we need to fire again against these players and re-evaluate the river from there.

inspectorgadget · #10 10-06-2005, 12:43 PM

I think this is all very close... but i'm inclined to bet that turn, because those guys are so damn loose... because the TAG guy didn't reraise you on the flop I don't think he's going to have a Queen.

I think betting the turn here is good, but I can understand checking it for some info... I would have checked the river again like you did, and would have had a hard time calling considering everyone stayed in the hand. I don't think you made a bad play by folding.

So, I say, bet the turn and fold to a raise... if everyone calls again then you have a hard decision on the river, but I think i'd check/call. I also think you'll knock at least someone out w/ a turn bet so that it'd be just you up against one of those loose guys so a check/call would be easier.