99 is top pair on the flop

Riposte · #1 10-05-2005, 08:57 AM

Thoughts? Did I miss some value bets? The PFR was 80/13... does 13% PFR justify a preflop reraise, and if so why?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Hero ($24.65)
SB ($19.16)
BB ($45.65)
UTG ($22.30)
MP ($28.87)
CO ($69.07)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
1 fold, MP raises to $0.5, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.50, SB (poster) calls $0.40, BB calls $0.25.

Flop: ($2) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP bets $0.25, Hero raises to $2.5, SB folds, BB calls $2.50, MP calls $2.25.

Turn: ($9.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP checks, Hero checks.

River: ($9.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: $9.50

etgryphon · #2 10-05-2005, 09:05 AM

I dunno... I don't really understand the check on the turn. It gives you no information with a possible str8 and flush board. If the guy is really playing that loose, a free card to the flush or str8 seem risky. I would bet 2/3 pot and see from there.

-Gryph

emil3000 · #3 10-05-2005, 09:12 AM

Yeah, really bet the turn. You lose this pot to too many cards. I also think you have a value bet on the river. I really don't see them checking any hands that beat you. I mean maybe a straight, but you can always fold to a checkraise.

Godfather80 · #4 10-05-2005, 11:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Thoughts? Did I miss some value bets? The PFR was 80/13... does 13% PFR justify a preflop reraise, and if so why?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Hero ($24.65)
SB ($19.16)
BB ($45.65)
UTG ($22.30)
MP ($28.87)
CO ($69.07)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
1 fold, MP raises to $0.5, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.50, SB (poster) calls $0.40, BB calls $0.25.

Flop: ($2) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP bets $0.25, Hero raises to $2.5, SB folds, BB calls $2.50, MP calls $2.25.

Turn: ($9.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP checks, Hero checks.

River: ($9.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: $9.50

[/ QUOTE ]

All you can do is bet the turn to give them the wrong odds to whatever they are drawing to if they are drawing at all. Yes, they'll probably call, but they'll be making a mistake. If they raise you, you can let go because they'll have 2 pair or better.

I know that there is little chance of getting a reliable hand range on either villain. At the levels we play, many times this isn't possible. All you can do is value bet. Don't offer fish infinite odds and let them play correctly.

Riposte · #5 10-05-2005, 11:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
All you can do is bet the turn to give them the wrong odds to whatever they are drawing to if they are drawing at all. Yes, they'll probably call, but they'll be making a mistake. If they raise you, you can let go because they'll have 2 pair or better.

I know that there is little chance of getting a reliable hand range on either villain. At the levels we play, many times this isn't possible. All you can do is value bet. Don't offer fish infinite odds and let them play correctly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the replies. For some reason I can't work my ahead around this dilemma.

Say I bet the turn, for like $7 (anything weaker and I stand getting reraised since I show weakness). One guy folds, and the other guy calls because he's on a flush draw, with say A9s.

So on the turn the pot is $9.50, I bet $7 and the flush draw calls for $7. Now the pot is $23.50. And on the river the third spade hits completing his flush draw. Let's make it anything from Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] to 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Anything lower is too much of a scare card so I'm going to fold to any bet he might make.

Now he bets into me, call up to a half pot bet, or fold? What if he checks to me? Do I check through? If I value bet like half the pot, his TURN CALL WAS CORRECT because now he's making enough in implied odds from his $7 turn call.

So what's the plan?

Godfather80 · #6 10-05-2005, 11:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
All you can do is bet the turn to give them the wrong odds to whatever they are drawing to if they are drawing at all. Yes, they'll probably call, but they'll be making a mistake. If they raise you, you can let go because they'll have 2 pair or better.

I know that there is little chance of getting a reliable hand range on either villain. At the levels we play, many times this isn't possible. All you can do is value bet. Don't offer fish infinite odds and let them play correctly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the replies. For some reason I can't work my ahead around this dilemma.

Say I bet the turn, for like $7 (anything weaker and I stand getting reraised since I show weakness). One guy folds, and the other guy calls because he's on a flush draw, with say A9s.

So on the turn the pot is $9.50, I bet $7 and the flush draw calls for $7. Now the pot is $23.50. And on the river the third spade hits completing his flush draw. Let's make it anything from Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] to 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Anything lower is too much of a scare card so I'm going to fold to any bet he might make.

Now he bets into me, call up to a half pot bet, or fold? What if he checks to me? Do I check through? If I value bet like half the pot, his TURN CALL WAS CORRECT because now he's making enough in implied odds from his $7 turn call.

So what's the plan?

[/ QUOTE ]

If he bets the river, you walk away because he's not good enough to do this with a weaker hand than you hold.

If he checks to you, you check behind although you could argue for a value bet here, but I think it would be razor thin EV-wise. Most of these guys are calling stations until the river, when they'll let go sometimes no matter what odds they're offered (I've seen players fold to $.25 bets on rivers in pots of $20 or more).

I hate hands like these at these levels, but I think this is the best way to play it.

Unless you want to simply check/fold the flop, turn, and river if you don't hit your set. I've thought about this a great deal. If this thought process isn't insane to you, let's discuss it. You make your money off these guys when you hit and they pay you, so why invest when you haven't hit?

xorbie · #7 10-05-2005, 12:24 PM

Reraise PF, bet flop, bet turn, probably check river.