How aggressive should you be with middle pair?

#1 10-04-2005, 05:37 PM

A couple of hands to get the juices flowing:

UTG+2 is about 26/7/4.2, yes 4.2 PFAF. Ignore the preflop cold call. I was pretty sure I'd get a multiway pot at this table. If not, obviously a reraise or fold would've been the play.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 raises, 2 folds, Hero calls, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, CO folds, BB calls, UTG+2 folds.

Turn: (6.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (8.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

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Opponents are all very fishy (like 70/0/1) or laggy preflop but passive postflop (35/20/0.5).

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero calls, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: (5.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, CO calls, Button calls, BB folds.

Turn: (4.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets.

Are these hands overplayed, or just about right? I will give my reasoning after I get some answers.

Edit: fixed grammar

#2 10-04-2005, 05:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ignore the preflop cold call.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 bets

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't ignore it! I think this is the problem with your cold call. How do we know he is not betting with overcards? A 3-bet pre-flop would have been a nice way to isolate the guy. He is borderline loose pre-flop, so I figure he doesn't value position and where to play hands.

Nevertheless, the flop raise is fine. No reads on BB? Probably has a better pair, like Tx, and so I'd maybe check through the turn and call a river bet. But I'm weak/tight.

benkath1 · #3 10-04-2005, 05:57 PM

I check behind on the first hand. What hands are going to call here that you beat?

Edit: preflop is no g00t. 3 bet or fold.

Second hand looks fine.

DCWildcat · #4 10-04-2005, 05:59 PM

Sorry to be a nit, but you absolutely have to 3-bet the 8's. You'd rather have those iso than multiway anyway. There's only one player in front. There's not a lot of action behind you, and you can face them with 2 cold. This is probably the best time you'll ever get for 3-betting that hand, actually.

Second hand is nice.

Innocentius · #5 10-04-2005, 06:02 PM

First hand: I really don't like the river bet. Most of the time you will only be called by a better hand, and it's very unlikely that you will get a better hand to fold. Check it through.

Second hand: I wouldn't bet the flop here with three opponents yet to act. The pot is large enough to make it very unlikely that you can take it down here. I'd check-call and hope to improve. Apart from a Q, you are behind to PPs like 99 or 88, which many loose-passives play passively.

jacarney · #6 10-04-2005, 07:32 PM

I like your play on the first hand, although i check behind on the river. I don't think you're called enough by a hand you beat to make this worthwhile.

On the second hand, I'm reluctant to bet this from early position. A little later, and you have more info and can possibly buy yourself the button for the next street.

#7 10-04-2005, 08:17 PM

Hand 1: I raise because I feel it is very unlikely that the bettor has me beat, so I want to force the rest of the field out. The BB call has me worried. I planned to fire again on the turn in case the BB is just hanging around with a small pair or would be scared by the K and fold. On the river I got cocky and thought I could take it down right there or that my 8s were good. I most certainly should've checked it through.

Hand 2: I flop a pair and an overcard, so I bet. I get a bunch of callers but no raise, and there was no preflop raise, so I'm thinking no Q out there. The Q on the turn makes it even less likely someone has a Q, so it's a bet-fold situation. I'm way ahead if no one has a Q or I'm way behind if someone does. Everyone folded here, but if I had gotten a call, river would've been checked.