Raising for information

Absolution · #1 10-03-2005, 01:46 PM

There seems to be a resurgence in the number of responses and posts advising "I raised here to see where I stand" or "A raise here defines your hand" and nobody seems to be calling people on it. I remember some criticism about this line of thinking in the past. I thought it might be an Ed Miller post, but I can't seem to find it in the search. Anybody know the post? In it I believe he talked about how raising for information is a pretty sorry reason.

Anybody else have thoughts on this topic?

gharp · #2 10-03-2005, 02:04 PM

Here's the post

I don't really have any other thoughts on the topic... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

lautzutao · #3 10-03-2005, 02:14 PM

Man, I must be search impaired. I can never find these meaty posts on topics I'm interested in...

POKhER · #4 10-03-2005, 02:17 PM

Seen it many times, and havent ever seen ed's post but yeh ive posted similar replys to some threads.

Pretty much along the lines of "So you raise, and you scare the guy with the ace into calling you down. He still woops your ass with his weak ace Vs your pair of kings".

Also costs alot to find out the answer at showdown ... but folding is considered weak tight [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Tough/impossible to please everyone [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

gharp · #5 10-03-2005, 02:18 PM

I'm not sure where I found it, but this site is a great resource for all these old 2+2 classics (and then some).

@bsolute_luck · #6 10-03-2005, 02:21 PM

you raise for a reason, but you still gain information. it's then decifering from there that gets interesting.

Example:

Hero Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

preflop: Hero raises, everyone folds except BB, BB calls.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
BB bets, Hero...???

your decision here is based on something (a read on BB based on previous hands- hence when a post is made sans reads, it is very difficult to make a proper suggestion). it affects BB, his read of you, how you'll play the rest of the hand, as well as how he'll play the rest of his hand.

but to decide to NOT raise because "i think i'm behind, but i'm not sure, so it would be a raise to see where i stand" is poor decision-making. you cannot play poker in a vaccuum. Each hand, each street is NOT independent of itself and you can't think that they are or you'll spew chips or miss value.

it isn't that i agree with people that say "i raised to find out where i stood", i just think they're defining their raising incorrectly and it is a problem because then the view in which they make decisions is looking in the wrong place.

i think i could go deeper with this, but i haven't thought it all out and i think/hope people get the basic idea.

Student Caine · #7 10-03-2005, 02:22 PM

A wise man once told me "Raising strictly for the purpose of gaining information is a mistake". This was great advice and has definitely helped my game.

However, like anything else in poker there are exceptioons to this rule. There are a few players with which the informational raise works well, but I only know this because I have played against them so much and have kept pretty good notes on them. But again, these are the few exceptions to the rule.