99 UI vs LAG- don't mess with scary guys - they can do nasty things.

Akimka · #1 10-01-2005, 08:02 PM

Villain is LAG - 44/10/1.6 (60)

PF play is questionable - I know.
What about rest of hand? Any c/r here? Any reason to release it on turn?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 2 folds, MP2 3-bets, 5 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP2 calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP2 raises, Hero calls.

River: (8.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.75 BB

Nick C · #2 10-01-2005, 08:12 PM

Since MP2 will probably auto-bet the flop anyway, I think I'd be deciding between a checkraise and a check-call. Leading does invite him to raise with AK/AJ or whatnot, though, if you think he will.

I wouldn't fold on the turn. I'm not happy about getting raised, but you've got 6 murky outs and also could still be winning versus, say, AK or AT.

On the river, I'd probably pay off, though I wouldn't be particularly optimistic about the outcome while calling.

thesharpie · #3 10-01-2005, 08:12 PM

Do you have a read he's a LAG or are you just going by the stats?

I prefer not to take the lead against a LAG in this situation. If he has AK he'll bet it so let him do that. Once you do lead I think you have to fold the turn even though he could be doing this with AK.

Edit: Didn't notice the gutshot.

thesharpie · #4 10-01-2005, 08:15 PM

He doesn't seem laggy enough PF to play AT or AJ, I'd put him on the usual 99-AA AK and AQs.

Nick C · #5 10-01-2005, 08:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He doesn't seem laggy enough PF to play AT or AJ, I'd put him on the usual 99-AA AK and AQs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, you're probably right. I was going by the LAG description more than the numbers.

I still would probably call the turn raise, though, because of the potential gutshot/set outs that I have in addition to the (small) possibility of being ahead.

If I did call the turn, I'd be tempted to call again on the river, but that may be too optimistic.

Akimka · #6 10-01-2005, 08:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Since MP2 will probably auto-bet the flop anyway, I think I'd be deciding between a checkraise and a check-call. Leading does invite him to raise with AK/AJ or whatnot, though, if you think he will.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well. That's very interesting because I can't figure out what Heros line after flop c/c.

Should Hero c/r turn or c/c it on given turn? River play?

You mean that out passive c/c line can get maximum profit from inducing our LAGgy villain to bet with his overs and get from him same value that if he would call our bets with overs but with this line he can't get maximum value with if he have TP hand instead with raise. Am I getting it right?

Is risk that he check behind with AK/KJ/other crap not overlap our profit with this line?

Nick C · #7 10-01-2005, 08:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is risk that he check behind with AK/KJ/other crap not overlap our profit with this line?

[/ QUOTE ]

How much danger do you think there is that Villain will check behind unimproved big cards on the flop, after 3-betting preflop? I don't think very many players would, and this one looks kind of LAGgy.

Actually, if I checked the flop and Villain checked behind, I'd start wondering if he had QQ.

Nick C · #8 10-01-2005, 09:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Well. That's very interesting because I can't figure out what Heros line after flop c/c.

Should Hero c/r turn or c/c it on given turn? River play?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you check-call the flop, I don't really see anything wrong with check-calling again on the turn. It's going to be hard to find out where you stand against this guy, and there's a good chance you're behind. He'll often fire again with a worse hand on the turn anyway. If he takes a free card instead, that's unfortunate, but at least then you'll have a better guess as to where you stand. (And I really doubt he would have folded to a bet, unless he was 3-betting very light preflop, and we don't really have much reason to think he was.)

If you check-call the flop and then an ace or king falls on the turn, I think it's probably time to check-fold.

The actual jack that fell isn't such a good card either, but I'd probably check-call again, hoping Villain will fire with overs + a gutshot.

If you've check-called the flop and turn and the river card doesn't seem to change anything, I think you have a choice between bet-folding and check-calling on the river. And against your aggressive opponent, I think check-calling again would be all right.

[ QUOTE ]
You mean that out passive c/c line can get maximum profit from inducing our LAGgy villain to bet with his overs and get from him same value that if he would call our bets with overs but with this line he can't get maximum value with if he have TP hand instead with raise. Am I getting it right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that is the idea I have in mind.

Also, I think the river is where an aggressive player is most likely to stop firing with overs, which is why leading the river, hoping to get called by ace-high, is something to consider. The play becomes dangerous, though, if you think Villain might bluff-raise.

By the way, HPFAP covers situations similar to yours on pages 133-135. (I would probably cap preflop against your LAG opponent with the QQ hand that Sklansky and Malmuth use in their first example, though.)