Error with KK?

[papilindo]

Wondering if this should have turned out better for me money wise:

$50 NL table,

I'm MP w/ p KK, I pre-flop raise 4x BB ($2), all fold except CO and Button who flat call. We all have approx. $50 stacks.

Flop comes AAx w/ 2 spades (I do not have sp.)
I check w/ intention of check raise, so as to define opp.'s hands.
CO bets $3 and Butt calls, I raise to $6, both call which signals to me that at least one of them does have A.

Turn comes x but another sp. so flush now on board.
Board looks AAxx (3 sp.) I check planning to fold which I do after CO checks to Butt who bets $6, CO calls.

River is a K, CO checks, Butt bets $6, CO calls w/ AQ and Butt shows AJ.

Should I have called Butt's $6 on turn thus catching my K and the under-boat? I felt certain I was behind and only had 2 outs. Wrong move given pot size, etc. Other moves I could have made better?

This is not a bad beat post, I really want/need to know if I misplayed this hand in any way. Thanx in advance for any help.

[beset7]

you are not getting anywhere near the odds to call and draw to a 2-outer on the turn. Is that what you are asking?

[papilindo]

yes, i guess. so not calling $6 turn was correct u say. Also, wondering if my check raise strategy was correct on flop and then check folding on turn due to the "read" I made. Should I have assumed I was behind by the action?

[yvesaint]

check-raise flop is terrible, terrible, terrible. only aces call, and you fold out everything else. you're also bloating the pot in a WA/WB situation. do you see why that is bad?

[beset7]

Although you can sometimes check raise to gain information, I believe it most cases you learn just as much for cheaper by leading out. In this case, I think a check/raise is clearly -EV because all you do is make worse hands fold and better hands call. In fact, in this case, if you know your opponents are passive, you might be able to check/fold the flop though I usually just follow my normal line and lead out.

Just remember that calling a bet on a board like this shows an huge amount of strength. I would have potted the flop planning to fold to a raise. If called, I am check/folding the turn unless I spike a king. You are 22:1 against hitting your set of kings on the river so its an easy fold on the turn unless you are all sitting with 10 buyins or something and you know you will stack them off if you hit [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[xorbie]

Min check raise is the worst possible play on this board. Let's the flush get absurdly good odds, let's an A come over the top and also doesn't get anything out of middle pairs, who will likely call but will check behind.

Bet the flop.

[papilindo]

thnx for response. no, i'm not sure i see it. don't i want to see who has the A? I did that w/ the check raise for relatively cheap ($9), plus if neither had the A i could have won it outright at that point as it would rep. to them that I had it. is this flawed thinking? also, i dont know what W/A, W/B means.

[papilindo]

okay, i see the logic. Better to lead out and fold if re raised or on turn if strength shown. got it, thanx much.

[mason55]

[ QUOTE ]
you are not getting anywhere near the odds to call and draw to a 2-outer on the turn. Is that what you are asking?

[/ QUOTE ]

If he knew they both had aces and would back them with their stacks no matter what...

[gol4pro]

Whether or not you have the K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is HUGE HERE. If you do, it's a clear call, if you don't, its a clear fold.

If you had called, you would lead the river, and probably fold to a sizable raise.