5-stud hand

ChuckyB · #1 09-28-2005, 10:54 PM

It's 2 a.m. after a game and a friend and I were goofing around with no-limit 5-card stud while we waited for the replay of the Bengals game to come on the NFL Network. We ended up playing for a couple of hours. In every other hand the biggest bet was $1. We really threw the money around in this one.

He's tricky playing hold'em and usually walks with the money at our games. My buddies from my weekend game always want me to invite him, just to see what he's about. Who knows how good we are at stud?

Thoughts on any/all streets would be great.

Villain: xx 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]-----calls
Hero: [A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]--bets $0.50

Villain: xx 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]-----raises to $2
Hero: [A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]--bets $1--calls

Villain: xx 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]-----calls
Hero: [A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]--bets $3

Villain: xx 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]-----bets $1--reraise to $9.50
Hero: [A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]--check--raise to $4.50--???

mscags · #2 09-29-2005, 02:03 AM

How much money you have left and how much he has is important here. I think I would try to check raise on fourth street. He raised on third and I'm pretty certain he will bet again on fourth. I try to check raise there and then lead out on fifth. I'm getting all of my money in on this regardless. If he has the J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] then thats life. I don't mind losing it anyway, just to see Aces full lose to a Q high straight flush in 5 stud which has to be about a 1 in a million shot.

ChuckyB · #3 09-29-2005, 02:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
How much money you have left and how much he has is important here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry about that. We're pretty low-stakes so calling his $9.50 would clean me out. He's got another $5 or 6 bucks.

BTirish · #4 09-29-2005, 04:18 AM

Are you sure he just bet $9.50? He didn't pull out his checkbook and make a $5,000 bet from off the table? =P

This is the exact hand depicted at the end of "The Cincinatti Kid," except I think that the opponent has the straight flush of diamonds rather than spades. Good try, though.

ChuckyB · #5 09-29-2005, 05:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Are you sure he just bet $9.50? He didn't pull out his checkbook and make a $5,000 bet from off the table? =P

This is the exact hand depicted at the end of "The Cincinatti Kid," except I think that the opponent has the straight flush of diamonds rather than spades. Good try, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

"It's all about making the wrong move at the right time."

imported_CaseClosed326 · #6 09-29-2005, 12:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Are you sure he just bet $9.50? He didn't pull out his checkbook and make a $5,000 bet from off the table? =P

[/ QUOTE ]

That gave me a pretty good laugh.

losingflush · #7 10-01-2005, 05:56 AM

So you tell some spiel, change the hands but I still say Lancey Howard is The Man and you ain't ready for him.

private joker · #8 11-30-2005, 09:28 AM

So I just saw this movie for the first time, and not being a stud player, wanted to ask a strategy question about the hand represented here in this thread and at the end of the film.

So McQueen has aces up and bets strongly on 4th street with the ATT showing, representing a possible A in the hole or even another T. Obviously he could have nothing but still be value betting against Robinson's evident diamond draw. Because after just calling 3rd street, he bets out on 4th first to act, so Robinson can't take a free card for his draw. This means he doesn't put Robinson on the Q in the hole for a made hand.

OK, so the 4th diamond comes up on 5th street and McQueen gets his aces full at the same time -- but it's important that he has AATT showing. Robinson is well aware that his flush could be up against a boat, so McQueen doesn't have a whole lot of room for sandbagging here.

With that in mind, why does McQueen go for a checkraise rather than a bet/call? If he checkraises (thereby basically announcing he has a boat), he'll only get called by a hand that beats him, since a bare flush can't call a checkraise when a boat is such a likely holding. Besides, that opens Robinson up for a monster reraise if he does indeed have the J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] -- he won't continue the hand unless he can beat a boat, and if he can, of course he'll throw in more money than God.

But if McQueen bets out, Robinson might fire a raise with just a flush. McQueen can then just call -- why just call with a boat? Because there's no point in reraising; Robinson's 5th street "bluff" would just be picked off by McQueen's call, and any reraise would, as has been stated, only get called by a straight flush.

I'm sure this hand has been discussed ad nauseum, both on this board and in cardrooms around the country since the movie came out. But I just saw it, so I'm relatively ignorant. Also, since I'm not a stud player, I'm not claiming my reasoning to be even close to correct -- I just want to provide a basis so those of you in the know can explain why McQueen's checkraise was the right play given his 5th street up card.

#9 11-30-2005, 03:15 PM

You want answers? Here it is. A famous movie hand.

private joker · #10 11-30-2005, 06:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You want answers? Here it is. A famous movie hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Boooo... Cooke talks about every aspect of that hand EXCEPT the check-raise play on the river! He analyzes Robinson's 3rd street raise and trying to induce a call on the end, and analyzes both the bet and the call on 4th street. But he doesn't say a word about why McQueen does what he does on 5th.

Does anyone have any insights? [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]