Calling preflop with SC's or Axs - profitable?!

Under what conditions would you call a preflop raise in position with the following:

SC (54s-JTs)?
Axs ?

And what reads and other criteria do you need to call with these OOP?

Clearly, multiway pots and really deep stacks, along with reads for passive flop play and small raises should go a long way.

Thoughts on these please!

/Jaxz

[meleader2]

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And what reads and other criteria do you need to call with these OOP?

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never do this i don't care if ur playing vs a 100% vpip over 500 hands bad idea.

[noggindoc]

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And what reads and other criteria do you need to call with these OOP?

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never do this i don't care if ur playing vs a 100% vpip over 500 hands bad idea.

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huh? would this change if you were in position?
seems a bit rigid

I do think that calling OOP is perfectly OK under certain conditions.

Like if you have really deep stacks.
Say bet is 4*BB, you get 65s in the BB. The raiser has 200+bb, and so do you.
Easy call, and I'm sure many will agree.
With Axs though, I'd like to see a multiway pot. And I'd play the Axs like a small pair. I'd treat the nut-flush draw like a small set and just lead out for 75% of pot.

The raiser can't know if I'm betting a set or a draw. And if he reraises, great if I have a set. I push. Also with the nut-draw, I push.

[deepdowntruth]

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Clearly, multiway pots and really deep stacks, along with reads for passive flop play and small raises should go a long way.

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You either want someone who is very passive post-flop so you can bluff them out...or you want the kind of player who gets married to top pair or an over pair and whom you can stack the few times you hit your hand.

If there is a guy at my table who I *know* from experience only raises with AA or KK (like 1% of the time) and goes too far with it, I will sometimes call with any two cards, assuming we are both deeply stacked, because I know that if I hit two pair or some freak straight, I will get his whole stack.

But the # of players this works against is very small and if you find yourself doing this many times in a session, you aren't doing it right. You have to have a fantastic read or evidence from PokerTracker. Put those guys in your buddy list. :-P

Otherwise, if the guy isn't an idiot or a mega-rock like above, you're just throwing money away, because as soon as you play back at him, he's going to suspect something and you simply won't get paid off enough to justify what you put in pre-flop.

[GrunchCan]

I never ever open-limp in EP with SC, but I also know I'm missing some value. I don't think I'm missing very much, and it's way to easy for me at this point to overcorrect. I think this is true of many players as well.

I'll open-limp Axs if I'm pretty confident that I'll get overcallers and nobody will raise.

I'll cold-call with SC or AXs only on the button and only if there are multiple opponents ahead of me already. Usually the raiser and 2 cold-callers. Maybe just 1 cold caller if stacks are deep & I think I can get it. I always use the rule of 5/10 here, but not until I see conditions are right.

[MTBlue]

That's just dumb. I won some of my biggest pots at 200NL calling small raises out of position with this stuff. You just need an opponent who is incapable of laying down an overpair that really is the only criteria. Don't use the hands to semibluff trying to make people fold 200NL> is impossible. just take the odds given to you and then bet alot when you make your hand.

[nWirb]

I think this is pretty good advice.

[dtbog]

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That's just dumb. I won some of my biggest pots at 200NL calling small raises out of position with this stuff. You just need an opponent who is incapable of laying down an overpair that really is the only criteria.

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[meleader2]

hey meow, i'm talking a REAL raise preflop. if the sucka raises min and ur UTG and your sure there won't be a reraise then i'd probably call too.........KNOWING you'll be getting a multiway pot.

what about if it's a real raise?? and also, would you be real comfortable trying to limp out of position like that? if CO pots pre you just threw away a bet. seems to me that after a few times like this you'll be racking up some real losses.

i probably should have said that in the first place instead of just "no way bad idea"