Suited Kings Poll

[private joker]

Mid-high player BoxTree and I had a discussion tonight. We both thought the following decision was super-easy. Problem was, we disagreed on what the decision should be.

FWIW, BoxTree plays 20/40 at Commerce, while I play 9/18. The games play a bit differently. But this situation came up at the 9/18, which is generally a very loose, juicy game. Multiple players to the flop, etc, horrible hands shown down, etc.

Preflop:

EP limps, MP limps, MP limps, CO limps, Button limps, SB raises. You're in the BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

Poll #1: You don't know if there will be a limp-reraise, and you don't know if any of the limpers will now fold once the SB raised.

Poll #2: Assuming everyone will call and nobody will limp-reraise, so you're getting 13:1 immediate.

Also, assume no strong reads for any specific player, including the SB. And please don't just vote -- write a post explaining your reasoning.

[jgorham]

Call - it's a no brainer for both. Limp reraises really aren't that common. So I don't think you should ever really worry about them. Or at most maybe take one bet away from your odds. And K7s plays well enough to call getting 6:1 I would think, let alone 10-13:1.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

i voted a call for both and i can't imagine ever folding here at a commerce 20/40 game.

and i'd call with a lot worse too.

the people who would vote fold often underestimate the other potential ways of winning other than a flush, mainly how often your K may be good. getting 13:1 it doesn't really have to be that often.

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]


the people who would vote fold often underestimate the other potential ways of winning other than a flush, mainly how often your K may be good. getting 13:1 it doesn't really have to be that often.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't forget the added times (albeit rarely -- but even 1% might be significant) that you'll flop KKx, 77x, and K7x.

[jason_t]

These are super easy calls for me. A suited K plays fine multiway. We have a 10.9% chance of flopping a flush draw alone and our implied odds are fantastic in a large mulitway pot. Add to this the possibility of flopping a monster (I've done the math on this before in another thread that I can dig up if this issue becomes serious) and that sometimes hitting a K is good. Limp reraises are rare. All this makes both these call super easy.

[Evan]

I would call in both hands with 32s with 3 fewer limpers. Folding here blows.

[GuyOnTilt]

To give an idea of what I think, as a rule of thumb from the BB in raised pots against two opponents I call with most suited cards. Against three opponents I call with any two suited.

GoT

[billyjex]

both are super easy calls.

Easy calls. I would like to know which one of you who did NOT think they were easy calls, and the arguments for not thinking the decision was easy.

[Derek in NYC]

Im surprised to see so many people saying in both cases that it isn't close. I personally call in #2, and probably in #1, but I think #1 is closer.

There are two problems with a hand like K7s from the BB against a raise. First, preflop you're concerned about not closing the action, and thus getting considerably worse odds on your call. Second, you're concerned post-flop with the difficulty of playing a drawing/trap hand OOP in a raised pot.

The second concern here is by far the bigger of the two problems. In this raised pot, where you are OOP, it is quite conceivable that you could flop two hearts, but expect to get taken for a multi-bet ride on various streets. And you're not hitting to the nuts, unless the A heart also falls, and the board stays unpaired. Additionlly, there are about a million ways where you can hit a piece of the board and have just enough to peel (e.g., 5 outers), but there's no guarantee that you'll actually be able to peel for 1 bet. So K7s, absent a miracle flop, can be tricky to play.

So back to the preflop decision point. For me, #1 is much closer than #2, not because the postflop decisions will be different (they wont be), but because the hand to begin with is marginal and potentially troublesome. When you add in more problems to the hand like the possibility of a limp-reraise preflop, it basically makes an unattractive hand even worse.

BTW--K7s from the button is a totally different hand.