Flopped a set of 4's - looking for feedback on extracting value

Student Caine · #1 09-23-2005, 01:24 AM

Villain here is Tight-Passive, with a little giddy-up post flop 14.5/2.9/1.6 over 145 hands.

Table as a whole is very loose and very passive: 45% VPIP, 1.9% PFR

Party Poker 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 folds, UTG+1 raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 3 folds, Hero calls, BB calls.

This call is a little loose for me, but I figure that I am playing my 4's here for set value. I am paying 1.75 SB and the rest will be putting in 8.25 SB (BB will call here...he is 63% VPIP) so I am getting 4.7 to call here. I figured that with my implied odds I could hit my 7:1 that I need for set value.

Flop: (10.00 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero calls, BB folds.

Cha-Ching! I figure that this flop missed villain. With everyone folding I decide to wait until the Turn to pop Villain - I want the extra BB to further increase my implied odds and I think if I raise him here then he slows down on the turn. I am a little concerned about a flush draw here, but everyone else folding makes me feel better.

Turn: (6.00 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls.

Good card for me. I am not worried about the straight here as I don't think that villain raised UTG with 87s.

River: (10.00 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero calls

I think that this is an easy bet. Does anyone actually lay down to his raise? What about a re-raise?

Final Pot: 14.00 BB.

Just a note on my implied odds preflop, the final Pot was 14 BB, I contributed ~1BB Preflop, .5 BB Flop, 2 BB on the Turn, and 2 BB on the river so the pot is giving me 8.5 BB...so the way I figure it I got better than 8.5:1 on my preflop call...is this the correct way to look at those implied odds?

JerseyTom · #2 09-23-2005, 01:39 AM

If you're sure BB will come along, you're getting about 5.67:1, perfect once you consider your implied odds.

Flop/Turn: I'm ok with trying to C/R and trap all the late position folks for an extra bet, but you need to be pretty damn sure that UTG+1 will bet. Once the LP folks fold, though, I like just calling and then popping the turn like you did.

River: Unfortunately you're going to see AA a lot here from someone who is 2.9 PFR. That said, I pretty much always will 3-bet this river and throw up in my mouth if he caps (while calling).

You cannot consider folding for 1 more bet on this board. If you fold this, like a million kittens will die... Seriously [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

nh

Tom

Redd · #3 09-23-2005, 01:45 AM

Raise the flop. The pot is already getting big, and there's lots of hands you need to protect against on such a coordinated flop.

edit: Just noticed the read. I'd probably just bet the flop if I wasn't sure he would continuation bet.

#4 09-23-2005, 02:08 AM

I would most definitely reraise this river, and certainly would call if he caps. The ONLY thing slightly scary about this situation is UTG's low preflop raise stats, which might mean he actually does have AA. However, he could have AK, AQ of spades, or he may have been on a bad run of cards for the last 145 hands and actually might tend to raise preflop with many hands which he simply never got recently.

Or maybe he's just doing something foolish and didn't have anything decent until the A hit on the river. This is at the .50/1.00 tables, you can't expect your opponent is making a logical decision. You have a set and there's no possible flush or full house and virtually no chance of a straight. Raise.

#5 09-23-2005, 03:32 AM

Preflop: Call is good.

Flop: I'd go for check-raise, as I think you were intending to. Once everyone else folded, just call and make your play on the turn.

Turn: I'd play it the same with the check-raise here.

River: Lead out with a bet and willingly cap on the river. Don't stop! More often than not he will turn over AK than AA here. (Well... that's just basic probabilities... but he did only raise 2.9% of hands... maybe AA is more likely)

DCWildcat · #6 09-23-2005, 03:55 AM

Great call preflop.

Good C/R attempt on the flop. I'm assuming you're raising if the PF cold-callers call, correct?

Turn is fine

River I'd throw in another bet on, though I'm perplexed at what villain has if it's not AA/AK. Random bullshit factor may be coming into play.

J_B · #7 09-23-2005, 05:42 AM

The pf call is fine because there are plenty of people in to be profitable

I definately bet the flop. My rule of thumb is that I slow play sets on uncoordinated boards and ram and jam on coordinated boards. On a coordinated board I want others out of my pot. I want you to fold. On an uncoordinated board I want to keep you in knowing that you are slim to none to make a hand that will beat mine. I want you to improve to a second best hand.

POKhER · #8 09-23-2005, 05:58 AM

Preflop: Marginal but a call is ok, MP's+BB should pay you off when you hit.

Flop: $5 pot!!! BET/RAISE! Its gone down to 3handed maximum RAISE!(then bb folds but we cant predict the future)

turn: bet/Raise!

River: Passives dont bet OC's, Then raise when a Ace hits. Your behind more often but you got to call.

POKhER · #9 09-23-2005, 06:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I want the extra BB to further increase my implied odds and I think if I raise him here then he slows down on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'll answer with questions. The bits in bold are my concerns.

Implied odds after hitting a set? Why do you need implied, do you think your behind villan right now and drawing? On the turn you'll have about 10 outs (3 for each card on the board except your 4, then 1 for the quads). Implied arn't really needed unless your drawing(and hoping to hit then raise like hell) YOU HAVE A SET!!!! and the pots $5+...

[ QUOTE ]

I think that this is an easy bet.
Does anyone actually lay down to his raise? What about a re-raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re-raising the river? What does a TIGHT RAISER(below 8 is pretty tight, below 5 is dam tight) bet with all the way to the turn then RAISE ON AN ACE?

AA/KK/QQ/JJ/TT Are posibilitys. Then his preflop raise % is super low so AA/KK/QQ, he may think QQ sucks so AA/KK.

He then raises the river Ace, What do you think he has?

MATT111 · #10 09-23-2005, 06:15 AM

Flop is good.

You have to raise the flop and bet the turn. Villain might want to take free card on the turn as he is very likely drawing.

Reraise the river. He has a pair of aces or 2p.