America won the vietnam war

DougShrapnel · #1 09-22-2005, 08:07 PM

Sometimes I get a thought that goes against majority opinion, and I want to see how far off I am.

The war in vietnam, was really a war to contain atheist communism. This containment was the actual war and not the battle of whether or not vietnam fell to conmunism. The war in vietnam had contries scared to revolt to communism for fear of USA interference. If these contries would have gone communist they likely would have helped the USSR with trade relations and strengh in numbers. There are currently only 5 contries left under communist rule. So not only was the vietnam war a success in containment, it stemed the tide of a political movement that was sweeping europe and eventually most of the globe, and was victorious in not only containing but also to start to start the attrition of communist state. Is it possible to lose the battle of vietnam, yet win the war on containment. I think it is, and as far as I know no one else has agreed with me.

#2 09-22-2005, 08:17 PM

Ok, I'll bite.

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The war in vietnam had contries scared to revolt to communism for fear of USA interference.

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What countries? Laos? Cambodia?

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So not only was the vietnam war a success in containment, it stemed the tide of a political movement that was sweeping europe and eventually most of the globe, and was victorious in not only containing but also to start to start the attrition of communist state.

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Please explain the connection between the outcome of the war and the events you cite.

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Is it possible to lose the battle of vietnam, yet win the war on containment.

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And its possible that communism was doomed regardless. X followed Y is not equal to Y caused X.

DougShrapnel · #3 09-22-2005, 08:28 PM

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What countries? Laos? Cambodia?

[/ QUOTE ] Contries in Europe, Africa, and South America. It's impossible to say which ones becasue it didn't happen.

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Please explain the connection between the outcome of the war and the events you cite.

[/ QUOTE ] I was hoping to get some help in this regard. But the agreument relies on the war stoping futher spread of communism based on the fear of retribution. Stopping that spread was the real reason the "cold war" was successful.

DVaut1 · #4 09-22-2005, 08:32 PM

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And its possible that communism was doomed regardless. X followed Y is not equal to Y caused X.

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Also knows as the 'Post hoc, ergo propter hoc' fallacy -

Besides, we all know that once Reagan stared down the Soviets, looked them right in the eye, and shook his fist in just the right way, the walls of inherently-bad and impossibly-workable communism came tumbling down. Just look at the timeline.

lehighguy · #5 09-22-2005, 08:41 PM

The communist leaders of Vietnam won the Vietnam war. America and Vietnam lost. The latter much more then the former.

Dynasty · #6 09-22-2005, 08:44 PM

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The war in vietnam, was really a war to contain atheist communism.

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No. That's what the Cold War was. We won the Cold War. But, we lost in Vietnam.

DougShrapnel · #7 09-22-2005, 08:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
No. That's what the Cold War was. We won the Cold War. But, we lost in Vietnam.

[/ QUOTE ] Is there any way for me to draw the conclusion that without the Vietnam war the Cold war would not have succeded. Where can I look, to find out if this is true? What sort of arguements can I make so I'm just not blowing air?

lehighguy · #8 09-22-2005, 08:58 PM

You answering you own question.

If anything Vietnam hurt the cold war.

DougShrapnel · #9 09-22-2005, 09:18 PM

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If anything Vietnam hurt the cold war.

[/ QUOTE ] Knowing that the USA is serious about stoping the spread of communism wasn't a major deterant for contries considering that political system.

How long does it noramly take from, A few people within a country who want to change ideologies, to the revolution of that country.

Actually I'm gonna have to do some more research on this. Considering both Loas and Combodia went communist in the same year that the vietnam war ended. As well as Afganistan acouple of years after.

lehighguy · #10 09-22-2005, 10:11 PM

What happened in Vietnam had little to do with communism. I suspect even the communist didn't believe in communism. They discarded it as a political system fairly quickly. Today there the only part of communism left is the dictorial one party part. Vietnam has a mostly capitalist economy with all of the usual third world corruption.

In order to gain independence from France the Vietnamese needed weapons and support. The US shuned them, so they turned to the Soviets. I don't think they really cared who gave them the support and they adopted whatever idealology lead to independence. Most Vietnamese didn't know or care about communism, they just saw the US as another invader. They fought against something rather then for something. Vietnam was about nationalism not communism.

US pressence in Vietnam was seen as imperialistic throughout the region and thus we lost credibility and support in other countries.

Without US involvement in the region things would have turned out exactely the same. Yes, it all might have been better if we won, but that was not possible.