Convince me why I shouldn't play poker professionally

[Mikey]

Give me reasons why a few can hang....and most of us can't?

Give me reasons why I shouldn't play poker?

WE hear all the reasons why we should, but we like to ignore the reasons why we shouldn't?

Tell me why I shouldn't play it over the course of this summer with my time off of school?

I want to hear scary failure stories and I want legitimate reasons why I (we) shouldn't play.

[Glenn]

There are exactly 2 reasons you shouldn't play poker professionally:

1. You would be happier doing something else.

2. You don't play well enough.

As far as 1 goes, you have to really value making your own schedule and have the mental fortitude to withstand horrible losses not only without tilting, but without being miserable for the rest of the day away from the table. I think the last few chapters of "Shut up and Deal" pretty accurately sum up the things that go through a pro's mind during the tough times.

For 2, very few people win very much money playing poker. Everyone thinks he does. You need to find your niche and be good at it. Be honest with yourself about your strengths and weakness. For me, my strengths are discipline, shorthanded play, and mathematics. My weakness are being motivated to play enough hours, playing in the most +EV situations (game selection), and burnout. I also often fail to keep a regular healthy schedule, so I have to keep reminding myself to do these things. On the most basic level though, most people just don't play very well and can't make enough money to make a good living.

[Fitz]

Mikey,

You have raised an interesting question, and I'll do my best to answer it. First of all, I'm assuming you can demontrate that you are a long term winner? You should be beating your game by ~ 1 BB an hour or more for an exendended period of time. My records are getting close to the 2000 hour mark, but I'll give you a break and say you will only need to be a winner in 500 to 1000 hours of play to know you are a winning player.

Now, that being said, I don't see anything wrong with playing "full time" over the summer. I spent summers in school doing a lot worse things. The summer I spent running a jackhammer on a flat crew comes to mind... lol

As far as playing professionally, I don't recomend it. Many posts here have outlined the pains and frustrations of making poker the way you pay your bills. What I recomend, especially to talented young players, is make poker a fun and lucrative second job. Get your degree be an engineer, lawyer, doctor, techie, cop or whatever; this will give you a solid base to accomplish the things in life you will want. You may not think you want them now, but you will want them in 10 or 15 years.

At the same time, keep playing and learning this game. I really do look at my poker as a second job; I have built a bankroll separate from the house money, and I have bought some cool toys with my profits. I love to play, and being able to make money long term is a great added benefit.

As much as we mentally masturbate ourselves into believing we will be the next Johnny Chan, we won't. At the same time, we have the ability to make $10 to $40 an hour doing something we love and enjoy. When the bankroll gets healthy enough, take a shot at the WSOP, but while dreaming of that gold bracelet, don't lose your mind entirely.

Good luck,

[Al Schoonmaker]

Mikey,

My reasons for not becoming a pro are discussed in my Poker Digest article (and appendix to my book) "Don't quit your day job." I won't repeat them here. If you send me an email at alannschoonmaker@hotmail.com, I'll send you the article.

Let me give you the biggest reason: HARDLY ANY PROFESSIONALS HAVE ANY MONEY.

It really is that simple. I live in Las Vegas. I won't violate anyone's confidence, but the entire poker community out here knows that some of the most famous players are buried in debt. Read Nolan Dalla's bit about tournament players on pokerpages.com. Nolan knows them a lot better than I do.

You're young. If you want to play full time in summer, fine. But get your degree and work at a regular job. Poker is a great second job (or a supplement to a pension for older people), but it sucks as a full time career.

Al

[Luke]

Mikey,

First of all, I think both Glenn and Fitz sum up the situation quite well and offer prudent advice. I agree with pretty much everything they said but I will attempt to add a few more ideas for you to consider.

Based on some of your past posts I've read, you seem to be an intelligent, young man who loves the game of poker. But why make playing poker your full-time JOB? Once you begin to rely on poker for more than just some extra money and enjoyment, you may develop dislike for the game. So why not just keep it a fun hobby and alternative source of income? Besides, do you think it can really be that lucrative? Assuming you're playing 10-20 and winning 1 BB/hr at 50 hrs/wk (reasonable yet optimistic): that's approx. $50,000 pre-tax a year. Not bad but this world is an expensive place to live, especially if you ever intend to have a wife, kids, own a home, take out loans/mortgages, etc. Even if those aren't things you desire right now, it's hard to say that that won't change in the future.

Another problem I have with becoming a pro player is job security. Where are you left if the opportunity to make good, consistent money playing poker dries up or you decide that this is no longer the life for you? Pro poker player and avid smoker don't look too great on a resume (trust me, I just checked with my HR dept.) But in general, if you have a degree, some serious work experience, can demonstrate intelligence and a desire to work hard, you'll have things you can take into many industries in search of employment. Basically, I'm reiterating one of the best lessons poker has taught me about life - always have outs.

Good luck.

Luke

[offTopic]

I'm not one to offer advice on someone's life plans, so I'll just offer up an opinion...it's pretty easy to get a job making more than $50,000/yr in a myriad of fields. Generally (not always) you'll get medical insurance, life insurance, dental, optical, and some other financial inducements that bump the real salary number up by a small percentage. Clearly, this lifestyle does not suit everyone...sometimes your time is not your own, and you will generally have to report to someone else, but making a salary at that level (or higher) is an option that is available to a pretty large percentage of the general population.


This thread below is not offered as proof of anything, just food for thought.

http://tinyurl.com/be6a

Full URL, if anyone's interested after a couple weeks [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...r%3D%26hl%3Den

[Duke]

If you don't care about a stable income or being healthy, then go for it. If you can handle running bad for a month, then go for it. If you can beat the games, then go for it. If you can play poker 8 hours a day, go for it.

If you ever want a family, and to be able to provide for them, get a different job. Play at night. You're probably not good enough to make enough. This isn't meant to insult you, but the vast majority of poker players just aren't that good. Even the ones who can beat the games for a little.

And the most important thing to making a lot of money at poker, if that is your goal, is to NOT go on tilt.

~D

[Anadrol 50]

It's only a summer!!! Do it!

[anatta]

Since you only want to play over the summer while you are off from school, I think you should go for it. What an awesome summer job! Your game will improve, and you will learn a lot about yourself as you handle the tough emotional aspects of playing full-time.

As for playing professionally as a career, you will be in a better position to answer that question after your summer full-time experience. My two cents: play as a second job. Poker is hard!

[Billy LTL]

Hi Mikey - This morning I got an email from a prominent online poker site saying my telegraphic transfer had been received and the funds I had sent were now deposited in my account. Yippee. I've been watching the mid-limit games there for a while and they are ultimately beatable.

But first, breakfast. I'm a very diciplined man. Coffee and a cigarette.

I log on to my new home and sit in a short-handed game. My account has 425 big bets for this game.

An hour later a quarter of that was gone.

I was playing fine, aggressive but nothing out of the ordinary. My decent-to-good hands ran into better hands, simple as that. And not a bad beat during the whole hour. Open-raise with AA in the sb. AdKd reraises. Flop is Ksxdxd. River is a diamond. Hands like that.

Any, a whole lot of money gone in one hour. I didn't feel bad because I wasn't playing bad. I wasn't worried because I had lots of money left in the account...but still, it's not the way you want to start off a session. Besides, I have other skills which are pretty marketable, plus I have a bit of money here and there. I can take the hit relatively unfazed.

My point is that a pro faces that possibility every damn day. If you can get over those kind of inevitable speedbumps and your game is good enough you'll probably survive. If not you'll be miserable.

And if you have a trade you like, working can also be fun.

And now for the rest of the story...

Another coffee, another smoke, then back to the game. From about 100 bb down (in one hour! is that some kind of record?) to 80 bb up. Took 10 more hours to do it but I played good AND got hit by the deck. Plus, like I said, the game was pretty soft.

Best of luck in whatever you do. Billy