The free river play?

mex78753 · #1 09-20-2005, 01:27 AM

I've seen this play done before where u check the turn with the nuts then raise the river if bet into or bet to get a crying call from a suspicious opponent. My question is,did I use this at the correct time,and if not could you pointme to a more preferable situation?

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $3.
UTG (poster) raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (7.33 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.66 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.66 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 6.66 BB

mex78753 · #2 09-20-2005, 01:34 AM

bumpity bump bump

donger · #3 09-20-2005, 01:41 AM

You'll make more by just betting the turn.

Think about all the times he's determined to call you down.. you give him a free card AND miss a bet.

How about the times he's waiting to checkraise you on the turn with an overpair? All those times he probably doesn't bet-3bet the river, but will call down when you 3-bet his checkraise.

Trying to get fancy by checking behind on the turn is FPS.

mex78753 · #4 09-20-2005, 01:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You'll make more by just betting the turn.

Think about all the times he's determined to call you down.. you give him a free card AND miss a bet.

How about the times he's waiting to checkraise you on the turn with an overpair? All those times he probably doesn't bet-3bet the river, but will call down when you 3-bet his checkraise.

Trying to get fancy by checking behind on the turn is FPS.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what FPS means but i figure he doenst have much. Your points are well taken though. However, I've been trying to work on checking when I know/figure opponent wont call me unless he catches up.

Maybe I picked a bad spot. Can you or someone else show me a better spot for this play so that I can improve?

thanks

mex78753 · #5 09-20-2005, 01:54 AM

Maybe I suffered from ROT (results-oriented thinking)because I got the crying call by KQ (basically just K high). Although I'm now beginning to think he could've called 2 with king high.

Regardless, I still need to find places where I can find a check on the turn i think to, if anything, change my pace up a little.

thanks for the 1 freakin reply lol

donger · #6 09-20-2005, 01:54 AM

Checking behind on the turn is good when you're against a tight & tricky opponent who will checkraise you with a worse hand often enough that you feel uncomfortable folding. For example:

You have KQs, CO open raises, you 3-bet from the button, flop is AK7r, you bet, he calls. Turn is a 7.. check here if he will CR you with JJ, QQ, TT, KJ, JT, etc, bet if you can safely fold if he pops you.

Then you just call the river if he leads it. You will frequently make extra bets from worse hands who would never have called a turn bet.

In your hand, you have a monster. Not betting this on the turn is criminal. This isn't no-limit, you have to keep betting every street in order to maximize your value.

FPS = fancy play syndrome, a term coined by Mike Caro

donger · #7 09-20-2005, 01:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I suffered from ROT (results-oriented thinking)because I got the crying call by KQ (basically just K high). Although I'm now beginning to think he could've called 2 with king high.

Regardless, I still need to find places where I can find a check on the turn i think to, if anything, change my pace up a little.

thanks for the 1 freakin reply lol

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't change pace on your good hands. Then you miss a lot of value. If you are betting as much as you should, this will be camouflage enough.

here's more info about ck v. b on the turn HU vs a trickster:
http://headsupclub.com/aprock_archiv...up_on_the.html

mex78753 · #8 09-20-2005, 02:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Checking behind on the turn is good when you're against a tight & tricky opponent who will checkraise you with a worse hand often enough that you feel uncomfortable folding. For example:

You have KQs, CO open raises, you 3-bet from the button, flop is AK7r, you bet, he calls. Turn is a 7.. check here if he will CR you with JJ, QQ, TT, KJ, JT, etc, bet if you can safely fold if he pops you.

Then you just call the river if he leads it. You will frequently make extra bets from worse hands who would never have called a turn bet.

In your hand, you have a monster. Not betting this on the turn is criminal. This isn't no-limit, you have to keep betting every street in order to maximize your value.

FPS = fancy play syndrome, a term coined by Mike Caro

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I make the above-mentioned play often against thinking Tag's so that part of my game is sound. I dont think I have FPS on a regular basis but maybe I saw it done to me one too many times and I caught a temporary case of it.

tks for the replies

donger · #9 09-20-2005, 02:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Checking behind on the turn is good when you're against a tight & tricky opponent who will checkraise you with a worse hand often enough that you feel uncomfortable folding. For example:

You have KQs, CO open raises, you 3-bet from the button, flop is AK7r, you bet, he calls. Turn is a 7.. check here if he will CR you with JJ, QQ, TT, KJ, JT, etc, bet if you can safely fold if he pops you.

Then you just call the river if he leads it. You will frequently make extra bets from worse hands who would never have called a turn bet.

In your hand, you have a monster. Not betting this on the turn is criminal. This isn't no-limit, you have to keep betting every street in order to maximize your value.

FPS = fancy play syndrome, a term coined by Mike Caro

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I make the above-mentioned play often against thinking Tag's so that part of my game is sound. I dont think I have FPS on a regular basis but maybe I saw it done to me one too many times and I caught a temporary case of it.

tks for the replies

[/ QUOTE ]

dude, how is this guy a thinking TAG? He posted UTG; this screams "please value bet me!"

mex78753 · #10 09-20-2005, 02:06 AM

No this guy is a freakin idiot. I was saying I am used to using the play you talked about before against thinking TAG's.

Don't worry we both agree [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]