Playing a set on the button

[grapes]

$20/40 game on Paradise, I had been playing about 20 minutes, so I don't know much about the other players except that it seems a bit looser than normal.

I pick up 44 on the button, 3 to the right of me raises, the next two cold call the raise, and I call, as does the big blind (I know calling a raise is marginal at best here, any comments on that?).

The flop comes K42 rainbow, giving me middle set. The big blind bets out, and all three players in between call. What do I do? I know it's generally correct to play a set fast here, but the flop leaves no draws out, and a raise to knock people out is likely to have the opposite effect here, keeping people in on the turn if I raise and build a huge pot now, if they pick up even a gutshot draw. Still, with this flop maybe I want everyone in all the way?

In the actual situation, I just called, the turn brought a total blank, an 8 of the fourth suit. Big blind bets $40, one call, two folds, I raise, both call. The river was a jack, checked to me, and both remaining players folded to my bet.

Comments, please.

[SoBeDude]

Shouldn't you be folding 44 preflop here?

-Scott

[Inthacup]

It depends on how much the blinds defend. If they defend the majority of the time, the call is fine, if they are avg. PP 20-40 players, I wouldn't count on them calling. I don't like the call here when you don't have a read on any of the players.

[astroglide]

"if they are avg. PP 20-40 players, I wouldn't count on them calling"

hm, i would

[Ulysses]

I pick up 44 on the button, 3 to the right of me raises, the next two cold call the raise, and I call, as does the big blind (I know calling a raise is marginal at best here, any comments on that?).

5-way action I'll cold-call w/ a small pair on the button unless I feel like the game is really tough. I'll also cold-call in the CO if the button is someone who I expect to fold. Any earlier than that, I muck.

a raise to knock people out is likely to have the opposite effect here, keeping people in on the turn if I raise and build a huge pot now,

With a set and this flop, I want everyone in all the way for as much money as possible. If I think a flop raise will knock people out, I'll call. If I think they'll cold-call a flop raise and get tied to the pot, I'll raise. If they draw out on me, they draw out on me. I want as much money as possible in the pot. In this situation, with the bet coming from the BB and everyone calling, I'd most likely call and try to get everyone for two bets on the turn.

[Rick Nebiolo]

grapes,

BTF I'd call two bets cold with any baby pair here and with this sequence it isn't that close.

A preflop raiser and two cold callers mean you will probably be bet into on the flop and/or turn. So for two bets before the flop you figure to be getting plenty of action post flop when you flop a set since the pre flop better is likely to be betting through the other callers. Had it been limp, limp, raise BTF and now the action is on you you don't figure to make as much post flop (since the flop bet will often come from your immediate right) so I'd fold the smallest pairs for two bets cold.

Mason once posted a good rule of thumb regarding calling with baby pairs or any pair that likely needs to flop a set to win. You need to make on average ten times your pre flop investment since you are 7.5 to 1 against flopping a set and will win about 70% of the time when you flop it (and you generally win big). The position of the bettors and callers helps meet that criteria even though you need to call two bets cold.

I'd put in the raise on the flop despite the lack of draws. Weak hands take one more card off now and with three callers there is no guarentee the pre flop raiser will lead again on the turn.

Regards,

Rick