qq hand,my reads and play?

[captainzodiac]

early into a $100 buy in,70 player tourney,on empire/party poker. dealt qq,i'm utg+2,blinds are 10/20,i have 1250 chips(all 3 villians in hand have about 1k in chips), utg+1 opens the pot with 100 raise,utg+1 flat calls,my reads so far are possible big hand utg,like aa,kk,or ak and think utg +1 has flat called with a low to med pair or a hand like aj.i think about reraising,but thinking it's risky with the utg raiser,and it's his first raise in 20 minutes,i just call,so i'm playing it a bit conservative,and plan to re-evaluate after the flop.then mid position player re-raises minimum to 185 chips,i'm thinking he's raising for info,to see if utg raiser pushes all in,which i probably should have done myself. then when it gets back to utg,he just flat calls,as does utg+1,then i rule out either one of them holding aa or kk,and the am only worried about min raiser in mid position,and thinking if he had a hand like kk or aa it was an odd min raise,knowing he'll be getting called by all 3 players for sure.so there's already a nice pot built,and i decide to push my qq,thinking only that i have to worry about the mid position player being ahead,but most likely going to be in a race with ak,or be lucky and get called by an underpair.i'm really hoping to take down the pot without a call,but also know it's likely that 1 of the players will call.
would like to hear some thoughts on my reads and play.

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
early into a $100 buy in,70 player tourney,on empire/party poker. dealt qq,i'm utg+2,blinds are 10/20,i have 1250 chips(all 3 villians in hand have about 1k in chips), utg+1 opens the pot with 100 raise,utg+1 flat calls,my reads so far are possible big hand utg,like aa,kk,or ak and think utg +1 has flat called with a low to med pair or a hand like aj.i think about reraising,but thinking it's risky with the utg raiser,and it's his first raise in 20 minutes,i just call,so i'm playing it a bit conservative,and plan to re-evaluate after the flop.then mid position player re-raises minimum to 185 chips,i'm thinking he's raising for info,to see if utg raiser pushes all in,which i probably should have done myself. then when it gets back to utg,he just flat calls,as does utg+1,then i rule out either one of them holding aa or kk,and the am only worried about min raiser in mid position,and thinking if he had a hand like kk or aa it was an odd min raise,knowing he'll be getting called by all 3 players for sure.so there's already a nice pot built,and i decide to push my qq,thinking only that i have to worry about the mid position player being ahead,but most likely going to be in a race with ak,or be lucky and get called by an underpair.i'm really hoping to take down the pot without a call,but also know it's likely that 1 of the players will call.
would like to hear some thoughts on my reads and play.

[/ QUOTE ]


This is basically impossible to read. Did you graduate from high school?

okay i could have sworn he didnt ask for anyone to be a shmuck about it. He asked for advice and as far as i can tell he evaluated very well. He noticed that UTG raised for the first timeall tourny and it was a legit raise UTG so he sensed strength. You can fairly easily rule out UTG+1 having anything after he just calls both raises as well as UTG when he just calls the reraise. As far as the MP reraiser, if he has KK or AA; tough. You already established that you feel you have the best hand and therefore would assume your not folding a rag flop (assuming only the MP pushes on it and neither of them call). Therefore it is correct to move in forcing UTG and UTG+1 to make a bad call or dump their inferior hands. And who knows he might have min raised with JJ. disreguard the last commenter.

[captainzodiac]

that's a little rude dave,but thanks for all the thought put into it!

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
that's a little rude dave,but thanks for all the thought put into it!

[/ QUOTE ]

If you want people to respond to your posts, people post in a way where I can read it easily. This is partially so that while I'm typing a response I can referance parts of what you say easily.

It's a little annoying to see someone w/o a lot of posts, post in such a way as to make the reader do a lot of the work.

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
utg+1 opens the pot with 100 raise,utg+1 flat calls,

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I'm talking about, this makes no sense. I can't assume you mean UTG+2, b/c that's you.

[captainzodiac]

my appologies,i'll try to sum it up better next time! i thought it was an interesting hand,so put a few to many details i guess.

[captainzodiac]

i do see that mistake,was utg opening not utg+1,good point

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
early into a $100 buy in,70 player tourney,on empire/party poker. dealt qq,i'm utg+2,blinds are 10/20,i have 1250 chips(all 3 villians in hand have about 1k in chips), utg+1 opens the pot with 100 raise,utg+1 flat calls,my reads so far are possible big hand utg,like aa,kk,or ak and think utg +1 has flat called with a low to med pair or a hand like aj.i think about reraising,but thinking it's risky with the utg raiser,and it's his first raise in 20 minutes,i just call,so i'm playing it a bit conservative,and plan to re-evaluate after the flop.then mid position player re-raises minimum to 185 chips,i'm thinking he's raising for info,to see if utg raiser pushes all in,which i probably should have done myself. then when it gets back to utg,he just flat calls,as does utg+1,then i rule out either one of them holding aa or kk,and the am only worried about min raiser in mid position,and thinking if he had a hand like kk or aa it was an odd min raise,knowing he'll be getting called by all 3 players for sure.so there's already a nice pot built,and i decide to push my qq,thinking only that i have to worry about the mid position player being ahead,but most likely going to be in a race with ak,or be lucky and get called by an underpair.i'm really hoping to take down the pot without a call,but also know it's likely that 1 of the players will call.
would like to hear some thoughts on my reads and play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like you calling the initial raise. You're UTG+2, and you've already got 2 actors who are going to be in the hand, nevermind all the people who act behind you, I'd assume at least one person behind me is going to call. So basically, you're allowing 3, other people to see the flop with you, this is terrible. Your position, though not horrible here given who the other actors are, is still pretty bad if at least one person calls behind.

Flat calling like this is generally reserved for when you're OTB and someone in MP makes it 3x the bb to go and everyone folds to you. Ie, a situation where you know the flop will be 3 handed (including you) at most, and you have good position.

So, I would have made it 300 to go, and the hand plays differently from there. Definatly calling a push, even if both UTG and UTG+1 push. As harrington says (though I haven't read the book, but know it from how often it's quoted around here), you're better off trying not to try to laydown KK if you think you have a read, because you're going to be wrong too often to make it profitable. Same principle here I'd say, especially in the early stages when both of them could be idiots raising with hands you have dominated.

Once the action comes back to you, easiest. push. ever. Well maybe not ever, I can think of slightly easier pushes, but there's no way I'm not pushing to hopefully isolate to 1 caller, and even if it folds around you still win a fairly sizeable pot (around 400 chips I think).

Note how much easier this response is to read than your original post. All my thoughts are nicely broken down into paragraphs that you can later quote very easily if you have a question.

[captainzodiac]

ended up mid position was the only caller to my push with k6 spades,but i'm not convinced that a reraise preflop with qq is very smart with the intention to call a push from the utg raiser.maybe with the intention to get away from it if utg pushes or push postflop if he only calls the reraise.
i really thought my read was important here,and that's why i wanted some input from others,too see if they thought i should risk going broke here with qq in this spot.