Call flop? Call river?

Peter_rus · #1 09-13-2005, 09:06 PM

I have hard time thinking about both flop and river and i wonder what do you think about them? No anything special about opponents, so i play only my cards there.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: PeterRus is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, PeterRus calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, PeterRus checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, SB calls, PeterRus calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, PeterRus checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, CO calls, SB folds, PeterRus calls, UTG calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
PeterRus checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, CO bets, PeterRus calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

Trix · #2 09-13-2005, 09:25 PM

I think you should lead the river.

The turnbetter had a chance to protect his hand on the flop, so he either didn´t want to or wasn´t very strong, so by leading you dont have him checking and you may get 3 bets in if he choose to slowplay something, as your hand is very well hidden.

The flopcall looks ok.

AceHigh · #3 09-13-2005, 10:02 PM

Flop call is a little too thin isn't it? Getting 14:1 on about a 2 outer, right?

I would bet the river, because it's not clear who will bet the river (utg bet flop/utg+1 bet turn) or if it will get bet here. If you were fairly sure utg or utg+1 would bet then I really like going for the river check/raise and it's worth the risk of letting it get checked thru.

ggbman · #4 09-13-2005, 10:31 PM

I dont like the flop, and leading the river seems better since you can get callers and still have it raised behind you.

benwood · #5 09-14-2005, 03:41 AM

I like fishing in on the flop with 14 to odds & a chance to pick up a well hidden hand with your 2-strt/2-flsh, like you did. They're right. Bet on the river.

Robb · #6 09-14-2005, 04:13 AM

You made two poor choices on the river imo.

DeeJ · #7 09-14-2005, 05:33 AM

I would likely fold the flop here, but running it through twodimes I think your decision is a very very good one as your pot equity is around 10%, even against people who already have a pair of Queens or Tens, even against two pair, you close the betting and you have position. Even against trips you are only at 7 or 8% and the call is easily merited.

On the river I think you're disguised enough to lead out but I think it's close. I'd be raising with two players behind me to act to try to get the extra payoff, and maybe avoid showing my hand.

Here's a curious combination of hands..... Hero may even have as much as 12% pot equity against a middle pair and gutshots.

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1218341
pokenum -h 6s 4s - td kh - 5c ah - 8s 9c - ad jh -- 5d ts qh
Holdem Hi: 741 enumerated boards containing Ts 5d Qh
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
6s 4s 91 12.28 650 87.72 0 0.00 0.123
Td Kh 342 46.15 399 53.85 0 0.00 0.462
5c Ah 100 13.50 633 85.43 8 1.08 0.140
8s 9c 100 13.50 641 86.50 0 0.00 0.135
Ad Jh 100 13.50 633 85.43 8 1.08 0.140

Peter_rus · #8 09-14-2005, 05:56 AM

The second choice you mean is river call and not a raise, right? But given the river action, is there a good chance CO is weak or maybe on a bluff/thin value bet as well as the rest of a table is also not way strong? So is there good probability i can clean out the table with my c/r, while by calling i can provoke additional calling with weak hands due to the big pot?

disjunction · #9 09-14-2005, 06:56 AM

Ever since SSHE, people are misunderstanding how backdoor draws work.

DeeJ · #10 09-14-2005, 06:59 AM

meh i always misunderestimate them [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]