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#1
09-10-2005, 02:27 PM
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Two simple hands that I\'d like reviewed
This is a pretty standard play for me in the first level or two of a MTT. I tend to limp along with everybody else with marginal hands like A-10, K-Q, K-J, etc. Does anybody play it differently?
PokerStars Game #2543112611: Tournament #12388721, Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/10 - 13:25:11 (ET) Table '12388721 2' Seat #1 is the button Seat 1: jrodusaf (1500 in chips) Seat 2: g_unit2126 (1500 in chips) Seat 3: Løvehjerte (1500 in chips) Seat 4: Doctaur (1500 in chips) Seat 5: Mr_Victor (1500 in chips) Seat 6: hamball00 (1500 in chips) Seat 7: mr. concrete (1500 in chips) Seat 8: mrh86 (1500 in chips) Seat 9: B924C (1500 in chips) g_unit2126: posts small blind 10 Løvehjerte: posts big blind 20 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to mrh86 [Ts Kh] Doctaur: folds Mr_Victor: folds hamball00: folds mr. concrete: calls 20 mrh86: calls 20 B924C: calls 20 jrodusaf: calls 20 g_unit2126: calls 10 Løvehjerte: checks *** FLOP *** [8d 7h Ks] g_unit2126: checks Løvehjerte: checks mr. concrete: checks mrh86: bets 120 B924C: calls 120 jrodusaf: folds g_unit2126: folds Løvehjerte: folds mr. concrete: folds *** TURN *** [8d 7h Ks] [8c] mrh86: bets 200 B924C: calls 200 *** RIVER *** [8d 7h Ks 8c] [4h] mrh86: checks B924C: bets 1160 and is all-in mrh86: folds B924C collected 760 from pot B924C: doesn't show hand I have Q-Q here. Does anybody call and see if an ace or king comes on the flop first? PokerStars Game #2543082420: Tournament #12387951, Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2005/09/10 - 13:20:01 (ET) Table '12387951 2' Seat #4 is the button Seat 2: pipedreams (835 in chips) Seat 4: archangel95 (870 in chips) Seat 5: jaycox11 (400 in chips) Seat 6: Revenue (2840 in chips) Seat 7: svinzky (2970 in chips) Seat 8: mrh86 (1200 in chips) Seat 9: bulldog69 (1520 in chips) jaycox11: posts small blind 15 Revenue: posts big blind 30 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to mrh86 [Qd Qs] svinzky: folds mrh86: raises 60 to 90 bulldog69: calls 90 pipedreams: folds archangel95: folds jaycox11: calls 75 Revenue: raises 180 to 270 mrh86: raises 930 to 1200 and is all-in bulldog69: folds jaycox11: folds Revenue: calls 930 *** FLOP *** [3d 4c 3s] *** TURN *** [3d 4c 3s] [9s] *** RIVER *** [3d 4c 3s 9s] [6h] Results in white below: <font color="white">*** SHOW DOWN *** Revenue: shows [Ac Ad] (two pair, Aces and Threes) mrh86: shows [Qd Qs] (two pair, Queens and Threes) Revenue collected 2580 from pot </font> 
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#2
09-10-2005, 02:42 PM
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Re: Two simple hands that I\'d like reviewed
Hand #1 I fold preflop.
Hand #2 is pretty tough, but blinds aren't that big so I wouldn't just push right there. I'd call his re-raise and see what develops on the flop, with the intention of folding to an A or K on the flop.
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#3
09-10-2005, 02:53 PM
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Re: Two simple hands that I\'d like reviewed
I have very little MTT experience, but if you don't mind I'd like to respond briefly anyway [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Hand 1: I'd never limp with KTo in MP in an MTT. My rationale for this? Perhaps it isn't that well developed, but I guess I'd fold because when I hit I won't know if I'm out-kickered, and will often end up paying people off. Furthermore it isn't suited or a connector. I just don't see it as a good hand at all. I would definitely fold to this river bet, especially since you still have over 50xBB and can easily overcome your slight deficit. I wouldn't be particularly perturbed about losing this pot. Hand 2: Given that this a forum-posted hand, my tendancy to suspect AA or KK is heightened, but that reraise to 9xBB of an UTG+1 raiser twice called certainly did look suspicious. Therefore I would call here to see if the flop came without a Q or not, and if not... I would tread cautiously. I would fire at the pot once if no A or K hit, but if your flop bet is strong and he stays with you he most likely has an overpair rather than overcards, and given the weak reraise preflop it is most likely an overpair above JJ. Oh, if I am just being affected by the fact that I have read this hand on a forum, and in fact one shouldn't particularly fear AA or KK too much when playing the hand, I prefer your line rather calling. That is to say, I wouldn't call to see a flop if I was most worried about AK here because if I'm most worried about AK there are other possibilites like JJ and AQ that I would think make the all in good. Gavagai
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#4
09-10-2005, 03:03 PM
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Re: Two simple hands that I\'d like reviewed
At what point would you consider limping early in a MTT with these kinds of hands? In general, if I don't get a big hand paid off, make a set with a limped middle pair or hit with a marginal hand like K-10, I end up very short stacked in PokerStars' tournaments by the third or fourth level. This is why I'm considering only playing in the weekly "Deep Stacks" tournament on Stars and playing in NL cash games otherwise. The blinds are killer in online most tournaments.
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#5
09-10-2005, 03:14 PM
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Re: Two simple hands that I\'d like reviewed
Well, I certainly wouldn't play KTo in a multiway pot, which is quite likely to develop with you calling in MP with there already being a limper. I thinnk not having good flush or straight possibilities, and also having a propensity to get you in difficult spots where you end up paying people off, makes this a bad proposition. If people are routinely limping early on with hands like KJ as you say, it seems that you will frequently be dominated. Attemping to build up a stack I would limp with suited connectors and small pocket pairs. But as I said I'm not very experienced [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Btw, I would never play KTo except in the blinds or for a steal in the later stages.
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#6
09-10-2005, 03:20 PM
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Re: Two simple hands that I\'d like reviewed
[ QUOTE ]
Well, I certainly wouldn't play KTo in a multiway pot, which is quite likely to develop with you calling in MP with there already being a limper. I thinnk not having good flush or straight possibilities, and also having a propensity to get you in difficult spots where you end up paying people off, makes this a bad proposition. If people are routinely limping early on with hands like KJ as you say, it seems that you will frequently be dominated. Attemping to build up a stack I would limp with suited connectors and small pocket pairs. But as I said I'm not very experienced [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Btw, I would never play KTo except in the blinds or for a steal in the later stages. [/ QUOTE ] That's usually the way I play it, but at the levels I play, there are a lot of fish, myself included. It isn't instantly clear to me who the good players are that are limping with hands like A-J or K-Q in EP and MP in the first level of a tournament, so I figure that most limpers will have garbage hands. I guess this is all the more reason to fold K-10 here, though quite a bit of information becomes available with a showdown when you flop top pair, middle kicker here.
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#7
09-10-2005, 03:48 PM
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Re: Two simple hands that I\'d like reviewed
KT offsuit sucks. I don't play it in early stages nearly ever, and if I do it's because I'm in the BB or I'm on the button and 1 million people have limped. And only then I'm hoping to hit two pair or trip tens.
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#8
09-11-2005, 12:37 AM
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Re: Two simple hands that I\'d like reviewed
Hand #1 fold preflop, don't bet the pot on the flop with two people to act behind you, don't bet the turn, especially when the caller is in position, and by the river it's a mess.
Your thinking on playing marginal hands in the early levels is exactly backwards. They bleed chips. When you and your opponent hit, you will pay off a better hand far more often than your opponent is paying off your better hand. If you play "like everybody else", you'll get results like everybody else. (Losing results.) [ QUOTE ] At what point would you consider limping early in a MTT with these kinds of hands? [/ QUOTE ] Never, really. Maybe in position with several people in front, or completing a small blind. Even then, I'm still folding top pair to any serious resistance. (I'm not betting the pot in a six-way pot with top pair ten kicker with two people to act behind me.) [ QUOTE ] In general, if I don't get a big hand paid off, make a set with a limped middle pair or hit with a marginal hand like K-10, I end up very short stacked in PokerStars' tournaments by the third or fourth level. [/ QUOTE ] You're either playing too loosely or too passively. This hand is a clear case of "too loosely". Sure it only cost you 20 chips to see a flop, but you gave away nearly 1/4 your stack on the hand. If you're burning up chips on hands like this, stop playing marginal hands. Hand #2 I probably do the same thing since I don't want to play QQ four ways. The reraise is suspicious but I'm also worried about calling and having the two players behind also call. I'm a bit aggressive, though-- since I find I get shown worse hands more often here than better hands. (Of course I could say calling and seeing a flop is OK, but I've already seen he has AA. Would you fold that flop, anyway?)
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#9
09-11-2005, 12:52 AM
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Re: Two simple hands that I\'d like reviewed
I don't think that I play loose or passive except with hands like these in first two levels. In my last few MTTs, I ended up seeing 12-14% of all flops, and I only saw roughly 8-9% of flops during my time outside of the blinds. I think I will take the cumulative advice here though and stop playing marginal hands early on just because I can do so cheaply.
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