3/6 hand standard

#1 09-09-2005, 01:07 PM

Ultimate Bet 3/6 Hold'em (5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero checks.

Flop: (3.33 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Button folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.66 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls.

River: (6.66 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.66 BB

-------------------------------

Just wondering if this is standard, put this guy on a flush draw so 3-bet flop, bet turn (he may have had the A flush but no raise here I think he hasn't hit). I checked the river as a hand I'm beating doesn't call so I try induce the bluff from the missed flush.

Edit : Maybe raising the river, but I don't think my hand is strong enough as he could have a better jack and maybe the ace. I thought I was ahead, but did it warrant a raise?

Harv72b · #2 09-09-2005, 01:18 PM

If this is me, I'm calling the raise when it gets HU and donk/folding the turn UI. If he just calls the turn bet, I bet/fold a non-spade river or check/call an overcard, non-spade river (and check/fold a spade river).

You didn't provide reads, but 5-handed vs. an UTG limp I think it's just as likely that you're up against a better J as a spade draw...and more likely that he raises your bet to face the button with 2 cold if he's got that J.

#3 09-09-2005, 01:21 PM

No reads.

what does betting the river accomplish, wouldn't you only get calls from better hands?

Harv72b · #4 09-09-2005, 01:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
No reads.

what does betting the river accomplish, wouldn't you only get calls from better hands?

[/ QUOTE ]

When it gets down to 5-handed, any pair becomes a big hand. Top pair becomes even bigger.

You also have to realize that there's a good chance that he's putting you on a flush draw. If so, he might be raising your flop bet with any piece of the board, a pocket pair below your jacks, or just two (or one!) overcards planning to take the pot away from you when another spade doesn't come.

Because of that, a lot of players are likely to call a river bet with a pair of twos, fives, or after pairing an undercard on the river. Even with K high. Against anything but a very aggressive player, many of these hands would be happy to check behind on the river if you don't lead.

Admittedly, that offsuit Ace was about the last card you wanted to see on the turn, and that does somewhat change the dynamic of the hand. But I still think there's value in leading a blank river if he just calls a turn donk.

#5 09-09-2005, 01:37 PM

when he just called the turn I expected that I was ahead and that he was just drawing. I guess he would have played many other hands this way. How many hands are there that would call after I showed so much strength?

What I mean is :

What is the ratio of calling hands when I bet to weaker betting hands when I check?

ricdaman · #6 09-09-2005, 01:37 PM

I disagree with the flush draw read. The implied ods just aren't there to justify a raise with just a flush draw. If it were me, and I had two overs and a flush draw, then I would raise, but then I would cap after you 3-bet. So I negate this read also. My guess is that he has that J with a good kicker. From the way the turn was played, I put him on a T, Q or K kicker, not an A. And from the way the river was played, I am almost certain.

W. Deranged · #7 09-09-2005, 01:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If this is me, I'm calling the raise when it gets HU and donk/folding the turn UI. If he just calls the turn bet, I bet/fold a non-spade river or check/call an overcard, non-spade river (and check/fold a spade river).

You didn't provide reads, but 5-handed vs. an UTG limp I think it's just as likely that you're up against a better J as a spade draw...and more likely that he raises your bet to face the button with 2 cold if he's got that J.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling the flop raising and donking the turn is generally my line here, but it's best done with some kind of minor read as I've had aggressive/tricky players raise my turn bet again with nothing but a draw.

Three-betting the flop has a couple of negative effects:

1. Your hand isn't that strong, really, and often you'll be losing money on this bet.

2. It gets you even deeper into the hand and makes it harder to fold on later streets.

3. It may encourage hands like middle pair to fold, though they may be more likely to pay you down after a confusing donk bet.

#8 09-09-2005, 01:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with the flush draw read. The implied ods just aren't there to justify a raise with just a flush draw. If it were me, and I had two overs and a flush draw, then I would raise, but then I would cap after you 3-bet. So I negate this read also. My guess is that he has that J with a good kicker. From the way the turn was played, I put him on a T, Q or K kicker, not an A. And from the way the river was played, I am almost certain.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you say that you wouldn't raise with a flush draw, you have to remember that the demographic of players at 3/6 aren't as good as the sharks that feed.

I am new to these forums, so I just out of interest, is it allowed to post results?

#9 09-09-2005, 01:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If this is me, I'm calling the raise when it gets HU and donk/folding the turn UI. If he just calls the turn bet, I bet/fold a non-spade river or check/call an overcard, non-spade river (and check/fold a spade river).

You didn't provide reads, but 5-handed vs. an UTG limp I think it's just as likely that you're up against a better J as a spade draw...and more likely that he raises your bet to face the button with 2 cold if he's got that J.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling the flop raising and donking the turn is generally my line here, but it's best done with some kind of minor read as I've had aggressive/tricky players raise my turn bet again with nothing but a draw.

Three-betting the flop has a couple of negative effects:

1. Your hand isn't that strong, really, and often you'll be losing money on this bet.

2. It gets you even deeper into the hand and makes it harder to fold on later streets.

3. It may encourage hands like middle pair to fold, though they may be more likely to pay you down after a confusing donk bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking about this line after I reviewed the hand, in my opinion it is the best way to play it. Against 2 pair / set you would lose the least money, I guess you lose one small bet against a weaker hand, but it is probably worth it for the big bets you make for the weaker hands that aren't pushed out by the re-raise and for the one small bet extra you lose against the stronger hands.

W. Deranged · #10 09-09-2005, 01:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with the flush draw read. The implied ods just aren't there to justify a raise with just a flush draw. If it were me, and I had two overs and a flush draw, then I would raise, but then I would cap after you 3-bet. So I negate this read also. My guess is that he has that J with a good kicker. From the way the turn was played, I put him on a T, Q or K kicker, not an A. And from the way the river was played, I am almost certain.

[/ QUOTE ]

Trying to read standard low limit players by playing out your own reasoning for their hands will lead to some really bad reads.

Many people raise flush draws almost automatically. Some never raise them. Recognize it's a distinct and likely possibility and proceed accordingly.

Also think about reasons why raising a flush draw here might in fact be correct.