Rivered bottom pair vs a flop call/reraiser

NLSoldier · #1 09-08-2005, 09:01 PM

Party Poker 20/40 Hold'em (5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, Button calls, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Button calls, Hero raises, BB calls, Button 3-bets, Hero caps, BB folds, Button calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero...?

Who calls the river? Anyone like the flop cap? My reasoning at the time was to get BB to fold a better ace...

baronzeus · #2 09-08-2005, 09:05 PM

I like the flop cap because if BB folds a better ace you win, and if BB doesn't fold you have good 3 way equity so you still win.

I'd call the river, but im kind of a fish and like to put opponents on hands that i beat, like Jxdd

Nah in retrospect i'd probably fold. Guess it depends.

Trix · #3 09-08-2005, 09:58 PM

I normally limp along here preflop, think it´s a clear raise ?

The call-reraise is kinda weird, typicall it´s a strong draw or strong made hand as you allready know.

Since you are holding Ad5d, there aren´t really that many draws he can have.

I think he would have raised 2 bigger diamonds that the board preflop. 76 is a straight, there aren´t really worse low diamond he can have.
Maybe Kx-Jxd, think I´m enough in doubt about these that I´d want to see a showdown on the end vs him.

With this in mind, I think capping the flop to get BB off a better hand is the way to go.

I dont see how the river play can be interesting here though, if you want to fold, then I dont think you should have raised the BB out on the flop. The 5 seem like a blank.

NLSoldier · #4 09-09-2005, 12:32 AM

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I dont see how the river play can be interesting here though, if you want to fold, then I dont think you should have raised the BB out on the flop. The 5 seem like a blank.

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Yeah I didnt think it was that interesting either. I was really more interested in the flop cap and then turn check.

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I normally limp along here preflop, think it´s a clear raise ?

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I think its pretty close.

me454555 · #5 09-09-2005, 12:42 AM

i like the flop cap for the reasons that everyone else has stated. I prolly toss the river b/c its too easy for button to have limped along w/a hand containing an 8, 9, or T. I think he raises most hands that missed this draw pf.

ggbman · #6 09-09-2005, 01:06 AM

I dont like the flop cap at all. The only ace that the BB could have here that hasn't paired the board is AJ. To get him to fold this, you need to get the lead on the flop and lead every street. My goal once he 3 bets is to keep the button in since we are drawing to the nuts and are certainly behind here. I think getting this pot heads up on this board has little/no value, and your ace outs are likely clean against a button limper. Also, the ability to check-raise the turn or river when you hit is a nice bonus, whereas capping the flop may deter A-10 from betting when you hit.

Gabe

NLSoldier · #7 09-09-2005, 01:08 AM

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I dont like the flop cap at all. The only ace that the BB could have here that hasn't paired the board is AJ. To get him to fold this, you need to get the lead on the flop and lead every street. My goal once he 3 bets is to keep the button in since we are drawing to the nuts and are certainly behind here. I think getting this pot heads up on this board has little/no value, and your ace outs are likely clean against a button limper. Also, the ability to check-raise the turn or river when you hit is a nice bonus, whereas capping the flop may deter A-10 from betting when you hit.

Gabe

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Im confused. are you sure you read the flop action right?

ggbman · #8 09-09-2005, 01:14 AM

Lol no i didn't read it right. Past my bedtime i guess. Ok, so new anlysis here. Basically, the buttons play here once he 3 bets means he is showing down no matter what. The flop cap is ok if you think you can clean up 3 extra outs, but thats the only scenario where your cap has merit. If the BB has some cheese like 66, 77, KJ, etc... we don't have anything to gain by losing. If you think you get him off A8, A9, AT, AQ, then nh. BTW, i fold the river, he has to specifically have KJd for you to be good here IMO. If he really played a naked jack like that, PM me his name!

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Entity · #9 09-09-2005, 01:25 AM

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The flop cap is ok if you think you can clean up 3 extra outs,

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You only clean up two outs by folding a better Ace, just FWIW.

Rob

ArturiusX · #10 09-09-2005, 01:32 AM

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The flop cap is ok if you think you can clean up 3 extra outs,

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You only clean up two outs by folding a better Ace, just FWIW.

Rob

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Which we're never doing, considering the board.