"Standard" bluff ?

Raven · #1 09-01-2005, 08:49 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Button ($600)
SB ($168.15)
BB ($1325.65)
UTG ($2856.16)
MP ($680.50)
Hero ($647.75)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $3.
1 fold, MP raises to $20, Hero calls $20, 1 fold, SB (poster) calls $17, 1 fold.

Flop: ($66) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, MP checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($66) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, MP bets $50, Hero raises to $150.

The raiser before the flop is a little bit loose and aggressif (32/12), the other one is an unknown.

Am I right to think its a good spot to bluff ?

MTBlue · #2 09-01-2005, 08:56 PM

Nope, you wouldn't check a set on the board or even a pair. So you are representing three twos. Not particularly believable unless the villain is ultra weak tight.

HoldEmKillah · #3 09-01-2005, 09:05 PM

I like it. The only cation (and it's not much) is that he may think you are on a resteal and repop you. His thinking would probably go like this: "The flop was checked to you on the button and you don't bet..why raise me on this rag turn then? You are probably putting me on 99-KK and you're trying to represent an ace. You are full of [censored]." A good player who goes through this process will either call you down or repop you but the repopping thing takes some stones.

Either way I think it's a good play but I prefer to do it when you are NOT last to act on the flop since it gives more credibility to you having what you are representing (set or ace).

btw, what do you do on the river if called (aside from planning on hitting a 5)?

lapoker17 · #4 09-01-2005, 09:08 PM

If you want the pot, just bet the flop - looks like no one else wants it. No need to go to all this trouble.

HoldEmKillah · #5 09-01-2005, 09:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Nope, you wouldn't check a set on the board or even a pair. So you are representing three twos. Not particularly believable unless the villain is ultra weak tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what kind of hands do you continue with after Raven raises the turn? It's not THAT unlikely Raven doesn't have a set. Sure, most players wouldn't check a set there but this is PP where the DARNDEST things happen! It is also possible that he called with something like A 10 and was just checking behind to disguise his hand...whatever. The point is how likely are you to continue with this hand after Raven raises when you may be chasing 2 outs with 1 card to go?

HoldEmKillah · #6 09-01-2005, 09:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If you want the pot, just bet the flop - looks like no one else wants it.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. Good point.

Raven · #7 09-01-2005, 09:24 PM

I was going to give it up on the river if called. And I understand the tought process of a good player you explained, but who does have the guts to really make this play with nothing ?

Raven · #8 09-01-2005, 09:30 PM

Could be good too, but there is still the short stack waiting for the raiser to bet, as most player would do with a good hand and a short stack like that. On the turn, both have solidly stated "no ace !".

warlockjd · #9 09-02-2005, 04:35 AM

So pretty much you are putting villain on KK and who cares what youre representing, he's folding with the A high board?

pottie · #10 09-02-2005, 08:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Nope, you wouldn't check a set on the board or even a pair. So you are representing three twos. Not particularly believable unless the villain is ultra weak tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm interested to hear from the high stakes players here how often they deviate from the standard play to add deception? Take a chance on the turn card, hope for a blank and increase EV by getting people to bluff or bet weaker hands?

How bad is checking AK here really? If checked through bet a blank turn and hope for a play like Hero did in this hand. If Hero bets the flop - is a check-raise that bad?