AKo unimproved

adamstewart · #1 09-01-2005, 10:04 AM

Comments on all streets appreciated, but specifically wondering about the turn and river play.

UTG is 34/12.6/1.0
MP is 26.6/10.8/0.74

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP raises, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, UTG calls, MP calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero checks.

River: (6.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, MP folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

aflaba · #2 09-01-2005, 10:28 AM

It's looking good.

One OK alternative would be to bet the turn again to get calling OC out.

What can MP be calling with on the flop? Hardly an over pair or pair, those he would bet or raise with? So his most likly holding is OC.

What could UTG call with on the flop? Who knows. A pair or overcards. I guess I prefer betting the turn as well when I look at it this way... only one player is likly to have a pair... so when thinking about whether to bet the turn you can sort of pretend that you are hup... but even better (since the pot is bigger and it is more important to bet to take away more of opponents collective outs). The times he doesn't have a pair you don't want to let your oponents have 6-9ish outs . You also don't want to get bluffed on the river.

I guess I think betting the turn is better than checking.

If you want to call the river then I'd like betting the turn much more.

?

wheelz · #3 09-01-2005, 10:48 AM

Pretty raggedy board, I'd bet the turn. I don't really fear a check-raise, and if it comes from MP I'll feel safe folding.

setjes · #4 09-01-2005, 11:09 AM

I often play it the same against those guys (who aren't likely to bluffbet the river). With this board though (probably 2 overcards for MP, UTG could have overcards with straightdraws, flushdraw possible), I'd like to bet again on the turn especially to make UTG fold his overcards / pay for his draw and take a free showdown.

helpmeout · #5 09-01-2005, 11:19 AM

I'd probably bet the turn, but its tough to say both players are passive postflop so they may just be sitting back with a pair.

At least you can fold to a checkraise.

adamstewart · #6 09-01-2005, 11:29 AM

for those who suggest betting the turn:

My rationale for checking the turn is that the flop was ragged, and I got called in 2 spots despite raising preflop and betting the flop.

UTG is loose preflop and limped UTG. He could have anything, even small pocket pair, or some hand that's paired the flop.

Given, MP probably has overcards that I beat/dominate, but he's not my main concern at the moment.

Alternatively, the only other reason for calling the flop would be a straight draw - perhaps 8,7 or 7,5. With the turn being an 8, this either completes many of the possible draws or at least pairs them.

I can't see how I'm ahead on the turn and I really can't see there being much chance of getting a worse hand to fold here. I'd say I have slim to none fold equity against the combined two players.

So, can anyone still advocate betting the turn? If so, why?

Adam

helpmeout · #7 09-01-2005, 11:56 AM

i'd prefer to put in another bet since the pot is decent MP as you say likely has overcards. UTG could have anything betting at least gives you some idea what he has if he calls he probably has a pair and you can fold to a river bet. If he raises well you fold anyway.

But sometimes he will fold the turn having something like QJ, or a gutshot draw other times he will call with a pair and you'll suckout on the river.

setjes · #8 09-01-2005, 12:30 PM

UTG is loose, so he could have called the flop with JT, QT or QJ. You don't want to give those hands a free card. Besides, this guy may be loose, he isn't that loose with a vpip of 34%. He probably doesn't play crap UTG if he knows playing with position is better. And in this case he called 2 cold PF, so I think he's drawing most of the time

pal=m · #9 09-01-2005, 12:51 PM

Not much is a certainty based on the stats or the action. I also lean toward betting for the following reasons (mostly already mentioned).

1. Slim chance your hand is still best and they are both drawing to overs, or str. draws (or picked up a draw on the turn).
2. Your six outs might all be live, given the high chances of a 1-pair hand being out.
3. If you get any heat, your hand plays easily.
4. Would be nice to showdown your big ace. It will hold up once in awhile here.

Though unlikely, would be terrible if YOU were the one giving the free card!

pal

sthief09 · #10 09-01-2005, 12:53 PM

betting the turn is good because they're passive enough hat they won't c/r you if you have 6 outs and because they're probably loose enough to peel on he flop with just overs. decent chance you're ahead here. if they're weak tight and will put you on a big pair then I like it just fine