Example of pick off

crosse91 · #1 08-31-2005, 03:11 PM

didn't know this at the time, but villian is 2+2, i won't call him out but........

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter

MP1 ($224.55)
MP2 ($389.85)
MP3 ($248.25)
CO ($189.12)
Button ($201.65)
Hero ($200)
BB ($425.15)
UTG ($312.70)
UTG+1 ($302.58)
UTG+2 ($189.75)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $1.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls $2, 2 folds, MP3 raises to $10, 2 folds, Hero (poster) calls $9, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls $8.

Flop: ($32) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP3 bets $20, Hero calls $20, UTG+2 folds.

Turn: ($72) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $50, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: $122

also, if you want to pull a move like this and have position always reraise, never wait for the turn to be checked to you (sometimes it won't) or dear lord-try and check raise the turn (the pot will be too big compared to your stack, and threat of a real hand too real).
however, if you have anti-position then the better line is check-call, lead.

djoyce003 · #2 08-31-2005, 03:30 PM

I use this play a lot when i suspect whiffed overs. You are folding to a raise i assume. NH.

ScottTheFish · #3 08-31-2005, 03:33 PM

NH. Are you check/folding a A or K turn?

GrunchCan · #4 08-31-2005, 03:51 PM

This seems pretty clear to me. It's very unlikely that the board hit anything that the opponent PFRed with. The presense of UTG+2 makes me a little jittery. But the board is unlikely to have hit him, either, so it's unlikely that we're going to get an overcall here. If the board is higher, say with an A, how does this affect our play?

I'd like to discuss PF a little too.Given that the pot is going to probably only be 2- or 3-way, 66 probably has more than just set value. We'll be able to win UI more often against fewer opponents. But the pot's been raised, this has to hurt our effective odds. What kinds of things are we considering when deciding to call a raise cold with a marginal pocket pair?

emil3000 · #5 08-31-2005, 03:56 PM

On a related note: the old checkminraise with small overpair that so many use, and a threebet counter. I use it rarely, but it's worked marvels so far.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter

UTG ($572.70)
MP ($288)
Hero ($610.30)
SB ($302)
BB ($281.61)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls $4, 1 fold, Hero raises to $25, 2 folds, UTG calls $21.

Flop: ($56) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $45, UTG raises to $90, Hero raises to $200, UTG folds.

Final Pot: $346

Results in white below: 
No showdown. Hero wins $346.

GrunchCan · #6 08-31-2005, 04:00 PM

I can't help but think that this is not a good example of a +EV standard play. It's too dependant on too many variables you haven't defined.

emil3000 · #7 08-31-2005, 04:09 PM

Right, like I said, I use it rarely. You need to know to know that your opponents check-minraise means this. These opponents are pretty common tho. An alternative line, which is certainly fine and often better, is to call the raise and see what happens on the turn.

elus2 · #8 08-31-2005, 04:10 PM

on the flop leading is usually a better play than check calling since utg+2 is sandwiched in between the two of you. if he checkraises the preflop bettor then you'd probably have to fold after calling mp3's 20 dollar bet.

on the turn i think you can make a case for either check/calling and then firing a blocking bet on the river or for checkraising the turn. you'd just have to know your opponent well enough to adjust to his tendencies properly to make the +ev play at that point.

if you're normally taking this line with a hand that can't withstand a lot of pressure then your opponents' can easily adjust by increasing the frequency of raising the turn.

elus2 · #9 08-31-2005, 04:12 PM

that's hot.

-Skeme- · #10 08-31-2005, 04:15 PM

I'd probably bet less. I also don't think that's a pick off. A pick off is usually when you snap off their bluff by calling their bet, not when you force out the worst hand.