Donked every street w/ flopped flush draw, turned flush

SlantNGo · #1 08-31-2005, 03:07 PM

Read on Button: So far, appears to be weak-tight after ~50 hands. I did take one note of him betting unimproved AK on the river but aside from that, hasn't shown anything out of the ordinary.

Should I be 3-betting this flop? I generally don't like doing this with a flush draw OOP when it increase the chance that I'll blow away the field but I also have a pair here. Is that enough to justify a 3-bet? By the way, I think my chances of winning this hand unimproved right now are 0 vs. this Button so I'm playing purely for my draw.

I bet the turn to try to trap the field for 1 then 1 more. Should I 3-bet when Button raises me here?

Then on the river, I thought I was getting call/call. Button hadn't shown me that he would go nuts here even with a set so I figured I wasn't getting more than 2 BB on this river.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero checks.

Flop: (5.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, CO calls, Button raises, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, CO calls, Button raises, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, CO folds.

River: (13.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 folds, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 19.75 BB

numeri · #2 08-31-2005, 03:17 PM

My thoughts...

flop: Love the bet out. The raise after two callers by Button certainly represents a made hand. If we count our outs, we have 9 for the flush, 2 8's, and 3 6's. I think they should all be discounted a bit, so we'll call it 11. This gives us about 42% equity, and a significant enough edge to 3-bet. That said, I usually call as you did.

turn: I think we need to 3-bet here. As has been mentioned on this board often before, people are more likely to call bets on the turn instead of the river.

river: I think the 3-bet seems fine. A read on how button plays a draw would certainly help, but we've got a flush. We beat any set (88) or two-pair (KT). Because you just called on the turn, he/she may not believe you actually have a flush.

kenberman · #3 08-31-2005, 03:18 PM

nh.

3 betting the turn is UTG/CO dependent. it's close.

gharp · #4 08-31-2005, 03:20 PM

I wouldn't 3-bet the flop for the reasons you mentioned -- if you face the other two with two cold, there's a good chance you'll lose at least one of them. Based on your read on the button, you're drawing here so you want that overlay.

I like the turn stop-n-go, but I'd 3-bet after being raised. Not just for value but if someone's holding a lone [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] they need to pay the maximum to see the river.

#5 08-31-2005, 03:20 PM

I like the way you played it except I think I would have 3-bet the turn. The thing I worry about in this situation is that my flush is not very big, and if another diamond falls on the river, I could lose to someone who stayed in with the A or Q of diamonds. I guess raisng will not drive them out either, but I at least want to charge them as much as possible for staying in then.

I wonder if people think going for overcalls is better here?

droolie · #6 08-31-2005, 03:20 PM

I defintely 3-bet the flop. Your equity is very high and the callers will very likely call again but they may fold the turn without putting in any more money.

Your flush draw is not the nut flush draw so don't feel bad if you fold out the callers. One of them might be sitting on a higher diamond giving them a redraw to beat your turned flush. This increases your equity which is often a good thing when the pot gets big like it is here.

You really should be 3-betting that turn. You're winning and players are coming along for the ride hoping to suck out on you. Make 'em pay before the river sinks them.

bigpair · #7 08-31-2005, 03:22 PM

3-bet the flop for value. You may also get weak gutshot draws to fold and have a better chance to win if you don't make a flush. I would 3-bet the turn as well. Button probably wouldn't have played a bigger flush-draw so aggressively on the flop given your weak-tight read.

Shillx · #8 08-31-2005, 03:23 PM

This hand was really poorly played IMO. [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

Bet-calling the turn with both a strong but vulnerable hand is a novice play that misses out on both value and protection. It would be debatable (but still wrong imo) to do this with the nuts, but certainly not with a small flush.

Brad

Reqtech · #9 08-31-2005, 03:29 PM

I had a VERY similar hand to this last night, where I had low suiteds in the BB and made the flush on the turn. You need to 3-bet that turn for value, there is certainly a higher diamond in the hand that will draw no matter what, and you need to extract value from them. Villain isn't going anywhere, either.

SlantNGo · #10 08-31-2005, 03:44 PM

Hey, just because I've been here awhile and am improving doesn't mean I don't make huge mistakes every once in awhile [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
This hand was really poorly played IMO. [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyways, I was so worried about getting value that I didn't realize a 3-bet gets me the same amount as just calling the turn when EITHER of them holds a medium to high diamond (i.e. T+), or even if they're holding top pair, they may call. So, a turn 3-bet = good.

But I'm not sure about 3-betting the flop. Like I said, I think my chances of winning this pot unimproved are 0. So why 3-bet when it may blow out others and give away my hand?