I 3 bet then check, check, folded: Can that be right?

TXTiger · #1 08-29-2005, 05:35 PM

mp2 25/12 reasonable
mp3 45/25 loose and occasional maniac postflop

Party Poker (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
mp2 open raises, mp3 calls, others fold, hero 3 bets, they call.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, mp3 folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot:

MP3 will probably not fold any pair on the flop

legend42 · #2 08-29-2005, 05:50 PM

I think it's pretty awful. I know that's the kind of flop that looks like they would both have a big piece of, but you have to bet it anyway.

akishore · #3 08-31-2005, 01:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's pretty awful. I know that's the kind of flop that looks like they would both have a big piece of, but you have to bet it anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why??

I like the flop check a lot and consider it standard if he intends to call one closing the action or check/raise it otherwise.

When it gets checked around is when the argument can be made that he should bet the turn with his two overs and a gutshot, since the turn looks like a brick. Even then, though, the flop checks might be at least one slowplay.

Anyway, you contradicted yourself in your post. That's not a great flop for AK, yet he should still bet it anyway? Why?

Aseem

rudedog78 · #4 08-31-2005, 01:26 AM

Even tho I like your 3 bet here, you could also just call the raise and then go for a flop check raise to get back the 2 bets you lost pre flop... And obviously you lose less if you miss the flop.

I still like a bet on the flop tho (after reraising), one of them will probably fold and the other one might decide to check and give you a free turn card, you're going to call a flop bet anyways, why not just bet it.

legend42 · #5 08-31-2005, 03:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, you contradicted yourself in your post. That's not a great flop for AK, yet he should still bet it anyway? Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because. I said it looks like the kind of flop that probably hit a preflop raiser and/or a coldcaller. But you still have to find out, and it only costs you 1 small bet (about 10% of the pot) to do so. For all you know, you could be facing A7s and 88 who are just waiting to fold.

AK is the only 3-betting hand that this flop missed. So make them worry about an overpair or set. If they call, you have 3 outs to the nuts, another 1 to nut straight, and another 6 to TPTK. You can't just give up on this pot. Presumably, he was going to call 1 small bet anyway (at least I hope he was planning to), so why not be the bettor?

TStoneMBD · #6 08-31-2005, 03:59 PM

i do not at all agree with the flop check, but lets just say that its optimal here for the sake of discussion of your turn play.

after youve checked the flop, i think its necessary to lead the turn. i find it really unlikely that you will get raised after noone bet their hand on the flop. it looks like you missed a checkraise and not that you have TT/AK.

by betting, you have a good opportunity to fold hands like 88 especially by the openraiser squished in between 2 players. the other player is extremely loose and you could easily be ahead of Ax here. you also have close to enough equity to call a bet if there is a bet back to you, so betting is clearly the best option.

MarkSummers · #7 08-31-2005, 04:14 PM

I think this is a clear bet. Pot's big, not too many opponents. A bet probably won't win you the pot outright but you need to find out where you stand at the very least. A 3 bet indicates a super premium hand and your two opponents may respect that and give up medium pairs. Also the original raiser may have AK.

There aren't too many hands you can beat but the pot is big and you must find out where you stand. It's too early to give up on this one yet.

MarkSummers · #8 08-31-2005, 04:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Anyway, you contradicted yourself in your post. That's not a great flop for AK, yet he should still bet it anyway? Why?

Aseem

[/ QUOTE ]

Aseem,

It doesn't matter that the flop wasn't a great one for AK. You still bet flops that aren't good when you need to. Say someone raises in late position and you 3 bet out of the BB with KK. The flop comes AQQ, please tell me you're not betting this. Obviously not a great flop yet a bet is mandatory.