Hypothetically speaking....

[grb137]

Since one guy went all-in, I got to see it all the way to the end even without having to pay

7 Card Stud High ($20/$40), Ante $2, Bring-In $5 (hand converter)

Seat 1: In waaaay over his head, on the ridiculously small stack
Seat 3: fairly loose/aggressive
Hero: superfly


3rd Street - (0.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in___raises___calls (all-in)
Seat 3: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___completes___calls___calls
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises___raises
Seat 6: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (12.48 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___[only has 1/2 bet left in stack]
Seat 3: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___double bets
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___[??????]

[djr]

How'd seat 1 go all in on 3rd yet have a 1/2 bet left in his stack on 4th? Did you mean seat 3 only has 1/2 a bet left?

I think this is a call, maybe a raise (to define his hand better). Seat 3 stuck around on 3rd with something. You said he's loose, not stupid. He's probably got two pair now which you likely beat. If he has the trips, well you still have outs against him.

[Jeffage]

Seat 3 took lots of heat on 3rd. Either he has trips now or has Aces (or Kings) up. Muck it, you're drawing very thin.

Jeff

[djr]

Given the read I don't think you can define the hand that tightly (at least I can't...you're much better than I). I'd give seat 3 credit for anything as low as tens up. Honestly if he's loose/aggressive and had aces in the hole he'd be more than likely to have been the one to cap on 3rd, not just calling to let hero cap.

[jon_1van]

[ QUOTE ]
not just calling to let hero cap

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes me discount AA and KK in the hole

[grb137]

[ QUOTE ]
How'd seat 1 go all in on 3rd yet have a 1/2 bet

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that doesn't make sense - let's just say he's all-in on third

[Bartholow]

I'd call, I don't think raising necessarily helps you define his hand, and since he's loose aggressive A) he probably won't fold and B) you may not want him to (you would if this were the last street, but if he'll bluff the next three streets it's worth risking being drawn out on, if he just has 1 pair currently).

[grb137]

I didn't think folding was the right play considering the implied odds I was getting. I called, and here's what happened.

7 Card Stud High ($20/$40), Ante $2, Bring-In $5 (hand converter)

Seat 1: $79.50
Seat 3: $857
Hero: $1,303
Seat 6: $966
Seat 7: $343
Seat 8: $2.041.50

3rd Street - (0.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in___raises___calls (all-in)
Seat 3: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___completes___calls___calls
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises___raises
Seat 6: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (12.48 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___all-in
Seat 3: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___double bets
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (8.24 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___all-in
Seat 3: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (10.24 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___all-in
Seat 3: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls

River - (12.24 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___all-in
Seat 3: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___bets
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

Total pot: 14.24 BB

Results:
Main Pot: $241.50 | Side Pot 1: $325 | Rake: $3

Seat 1: [ Kh Kd 2c 4s Jd 3d 3h ] [ two pairs, kings and threes -- Kh,Kd,Jd,3d,3h ]

Seat 3: [ 2d 4d 9d 9h 9s Ks 2s ] [ a full house, Nines full of twos -- 9d,9h,9s,2d,2s ]

Hero: [ Qd 6s Qh 6c Qc 4c Ad ] [ a full house, Queens full of sixes -- Qd,Qh,Qc,6s,6c ]


I suspect I probably missed a bet. I had forgotten about the dead 9, so I suspected villan was 9s full but possibly had quads. Had I remember the 9, I may have raised 5th, but then again villan might have folded (good call Bart). Anyway, I decided against the raise. With him hitting a K on 6th, I added Ks full to my list of "oh crap" hands that villan might have had, so I merely called 6th and 7th.

So, in hindsight, any of the people who voted "fold" want to change their vote....or argue that fold was still the right play?

[Andy B]

I think this is a call. Wouldn't the loose-aggressive player cap on third street with Aces or Kings? Would he raise coming in with split Nines and a Nine gone?

[Andy B]

Since this guy is loose, I would raise fifth. Even if you think that the case Nine is live, it is irrational to be overly fearful of the nuts. You don't have to go broke, but you should at least get in one or two raises at some point. I would also raise sixth, although the situation is a little more dangerous, since his play is entirely consistent with Kings full. I don't think this guy commands a whole lot of respect, though.