Sick of giving these pots away

callmedonnie · #1 08-29-2005, 12:46 PM

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
4 folds, Hero raises, MP3 3-bets, 4 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: 5.75 BB

So I think too often when I am three bet in these spots I simply c/f w/out improving. But if there is only one high card the chances are that opponent may not have hit. Opponent seemed solid. Not too weak or tight, but just a solid LAG. I thought I could sell a King, and this turn was the last $ I was committing unless I spiked an Ace on river. I planned to fold to a turn raise.

Bodhi · #2 08-29-2005, 01:04 PM

I've got to try that sometime.

Do you mean that he was aggro postflop? Or do you mean that his pfr was over 10%?

callmedonnie · #3 08-29-2005, 01:13 PM

I hadn't played with him too long and I don't have PT with me now so I can't put up his stats. Only here was the thought. Three betting hands could be tens through Aces, AK, and maybe AQ (not sure, seen some who three bet this consistently, though I am not one of them). He seemed solid, but by that I mean he seemed like he was perceptive. Some players like this can lay down hands when convinced they are way behind. Since I open raised, a King could very possibly be in my hand.

Because a King high board fell, I thought that meant I could push AQ and all TT-QQ out, if that was what he had. I don't think I would try this on a Queen high board. Nor do I think this will always work. Like I said, I fold to a turn raise. When he didn't raise flop, I felt I had to fire away on turn.

KramerTM · #4 08-29-2005, 02:40 PM

I like this. As long as you know why you're doing this (i.e. Villain's range is JJ+, AQs+, AKo, most of those hands you can get him off of) as opposed to being frustrated that you were 3-bet with a halfway decent hand, then I'm an advocate.

You're right, the texture of this flop lends will to getting a PF 3-better off his hand. You easily can have KQ in this spot.

GMan42 · #5 08-29-2005, 06:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
this turn was the last $ I was committing unless I spiked an Ace on river.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if you spike a Q you'll fold your straight? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

But seriously, I like this move occasionally against a LAG who isn't maniacal (a maniac will usually take your donk bet as a personal affront and 3-bet you). Don't overdo it, though.

callmedonnie · #6 08-29-2005, 06:46 PM

He was by no means a lag. He was a tag. This is a move I am going to seldom use, and next time I am going to wait for some more evidence and see if I spot a player folding his three bet. I still think he had a better hand than me. Its just HU on that board, I think he can be convinced his pocket tens, queens, jacks or drawing to two slim outs. Basically, against a tight player I would might fold one of those hands there.

Thanks for pointing out the queen though. I probably wouldn't fold the straight. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Stinkybeaver · #7 08-29-2005, 08:19 PM

This just proves how important it is to call down or fire back when It is ourselfs who 3-bet with TT-QQ in this spot.

I don't do it all the time but how bad would it be as a standard play to call dwon or raise when donked after you've just 3-bettet preflop..?

As always reads play an important rule. But I don't think calling down with on K hight board HU is bad if you have a lower pocket pair. What if an ace pops. I'm folding a lot of hands here and sometimes I puke when the others reach Showdown.

DeadRed · #8 08-30-2005, 07:28 AM

I do this on occassion, but I think a very important key to this hand is that you did NOT cap PF. I think when you do so, you are more likely to give the impression that you are uberdonking or just being completely stubborn, and opponent is more likely to call you down after the cap and your flop bet. The stop & go seems to be more intimidating than a cap and bet. With a cap, he puts you on AA or decides you're over-advertising and calls you down. With the S&G, he can more easily convince himself you have AK and muck QQ-TT.

Or maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about...

thejameser · #9 08-30-2005, 08:30 AM

nice turn semibluff.