on-line games

[issasalim]

I wounder where to play fair on-line poker,where the shuffling is fair and the next coming card is random.Unfortunetly,the sites I have been playing so far are rake -maximizing sites or river sites where they keep everybody in the game for the last minute,the flop is related to the hole cards or related to the breviuos flops which i dont believe they are random.There is always open-end staight for one,4 parts flush for the other and 2 pairs where eveyone thinks he has the best and keeps putting money in the pot where the rake only goes up.The other thing is how can trust the people and the software engineers who runs some of these sites.I have been playing planetpoker and pokerstar for long time,but i am not happy with their performance.I have been loosing money continously and never won anything.I am a solid,tight,aggressive player where I usually make good money everytime I go to AC(Taj Mahal),but its just too far for me.thank you [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img]

[SoBeDude]

No offense bud,

but you post is one made by a losing poker player trying to justify why he's lost all his buy-in online.

If you can't beat the online games, you need to work on your basic poker skills.

All the major sites are honest with properly randomized cards.

Or since you say you're a solid tight player, perhaps you need to adjust your game somehow? Are you playing at too high of limits?

I personally find the 2-4 online about equal to my live 10-20 game in skill of opponents.

Good luck and quit blaming the sites for your losses.

-Scott

[RockLobster]

[Tommy Angelo]

As usual, I got it backwards. I suck so bad at online poker that I would only suspect cheating if I won.

Tommy

[bernie]

theyd love you on the internet forum. call ya a kook and such.

the fact is, there is no way to know if any site is 'honest'. theyre not regulated by anyone. sure, one place 'says' the did some test, but how reliable are they? and who's to say theyd report anything wrong anyway. could be a sub of any internet site doing it...

mason wrote a fantastic line that many onliners ignore, but is very true.

from essays...pg 203

"In gambling and the law, professor I. Nelson Rose points out that the history of gambling shows that gambling almost always will become corrupt unless it is closely regulated"

to think internet gambling is safe based on blind faith is ridiculous. know the possibilities of what can happen. id stay to the more 'known' sites, but even then, id still be wary.
any study of the history of gambling will show the above statement is very valid.

and yes, im an online winner telling you this. i play, but at times i have to adjust a little due to the 'play' of internet.

be careful

b

[hot tub man # 1]

I remember when I was emailing paradise poker telling them about how I am a winning player, and how there site is crooked because I always get my brains beat in every time I play.

I would usually wire a thousand or fifteen hundred, play 15-30 or 20-40, sometimes both at the same time, short or full, go on a run, and then lose my money. I took a lot of bad beats and ignored every draw that happened to get there for me.

I decided to switch sites and drop down considerably. I found that the games on other sites were much softer, and the 3-6 and 5-10 games were much easier to beat than the bigger games. Also, I never steamed when playing the smaller games, because the swings are much easier to deal with. I also started to become a better poker player, and realized I didnt know as much as I once thought I did.

Internet poker is much different because you dont really have the ability to play the player as you would in a live game. You have to watch how people play and put them in catogories, and try to make the move that is going to be right the majority of the time. Most of my problems were stemming from paying off when raised on the turn, because I never wanted to believe mt opponent had a hand. It's hard to believe people have real hands sometimes because of the few goofballs who occationally get you off the winner on a stone cold bluff. My advise is drop down, dont play shorthanded if its not your strength, and if you are playing to many hands, try playing two games, it might keep you more patient. Also, dont worry about being bluffed, you are going to have to lay down a lot of winners if you want to be succesful. The money you save yourself when you make your good laydowns will make up for the money lost when you folded the winner. Also, I found that position becomes much more important when you cant see your oppenent. Dont play bad hands out of position, fold the connectors and small pairs, and dont lose your money taking stabs at nothing pots. Thses were the areas that were hurting my game.

Im still not a winning player on the internet. In my first year I lost 6000 playing 15-30 and 20-40. Since I switched sites and dropped down Ive won 5200 in the last two months. You have to realize the big games are tough, and there is a pretty large learning curve that goes along with playing on the net.

[Punker]

The availability of hand histories and tracking software ensure that the sites are "regulated"; if there was funny business going on, it would be readily apparent over a span of 10,000 or so hands, and most sites have dealt many many millions of hands. If the deal wasn't random, there are enough smart people on RGP and 2+2 that a mathematical proof would be available by now.

[bernie]

i really dont want to make this into a big yes/no discussion, since neither way can be proven. ill let the online forum keep hashing that out. and most of the prominent posters on their agree with me unanimously. i know from the responses to the few posts ive put on that forum, similar to this post, and private messages from them.

the fact is, there is no regulation. none. and it takes more than just basic tracking software to do it, as the dishonest part can be very, very subtle.

no reputable person on 2+2 or RGP can ensure 100% honesty on any none-regulated internet site. no one.

also the fact that online sites can NOT be held responsible for any wrongdoing doesnt help either. you will never collect a claim made against an online site even if you proved wrongdoing. they are outside the laws confining the US.

good luck trying

so until theyre are subjectable to this, scepticism should be in the back of one's mind when playing a site.

do you really think theyd run a legit BJ game online if they advertised a certain number of decks?

im not saying one isnt honest, but one cannot be, without a doubt, sure. there is no proof either way. i just keep my mind open to the very real possibilities. to ignore those, you are playing on blind faith.

and that's a fact

b

[Punker]

"the fact is, there is no regulation. none. and it takes more than just basic tracking software to do it, as the dishonest part can be very, very subtle"

Could you clarify this statement?

"do you really think theyd run a legit BJ game online if they advertised a certain number of decks?"

If I played on one of these sites, I'd be tracking my play to ensure that I was receiving a fair distribution of cards, and the dealer was receiving a fair distribution of cards. If this was the case, I wouldn't have any care at all. And on the sites I have played, I have found this to be the case.

[David Ottosen]

Ok, well I don't know if you think I'm "reputable" or not, but I can tell you this:

I've been working at PokerStars in the support department for the last 2 months. I can look at large amounts of hand histories, large amounts of flops, see all hands after the fact, etc etc. I can say with total confidence that the site is totally honest and random, and if anyone here thinks that their account has not been getting a fair shake, I will be glad to discuss it further via PM or email with a more detailed analysis (in fact, I've done so with some of the users here).

David
PokerStars Support