Got a piece of the flop with a big draw - how do you play it?

[MN_Mime]

UTG + 1 seems LAGgish PF and passive post-flop, but only 11 hands - 45.45 VPIP/9% PFR/Agg .1

BB: HERO 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]


PRE-FLOP
UTG calls, UTG + 1 raises, MP1 calls, 5 folds, HERO calls, UTG calls.

Was the pre-flop call too loose?


FLOP Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
HERO checks, UTG checks, UTG + 1 bets, MP1 folds, HERO bets, UTG calls, UTG + 1 calls.

TURN 7C
HERO bets, UTG folds, UTG + 1 calls.

RIVER 9H
HERO... ?

How was my line on this and how do you handle the river play?

I think the preflop call is probably too loose. My rule of thumb when facing a non-steal raise from the BB is to play the same hands I would complete with from the SB unraised. The FAQ says you should play between 25-35% of your hands from the SB, I think 1/3rd is a decent goal.

So the question you have to ask yourself is, is 64s really in the top third of hands I will be dealt? I doubt it's even in the top half, so I would probably fold PF.

Given that you did play it, I thought your line was good. I would probably check/call the river, although I wouldn't expect to win.

I think preflop if perfectly fine getting 8:1 with a suited semi-connecter. I would check/call the river your opponenet seems very loose agressive, you are likely behind but think you be good often enough.

[Roadstar]

Preflop call too loose, there is only 3 other players in.

Flop - I'm not sure if your hand history is correct but if you check raised I don't like it. To play draws correctly you generally want as many ppl with you on the draw as possible, don't try to make UTG face 2 cold its unlikely he will call (he did in this particular example but that doesn't make it right).

If you want to check/raise a draw, a better situation would be Hero Checks, UTG bets, 2 callers, back to you then you raise. Because everyone has committed a bet and almost has to call one more (you're building the pot for your draw).

Turn - Given you check/raised, the bet if fine, otherwise check/call is ok too

River - Check/Fold this! you have absolute bottom pair, unless your opponents are complete donks, they would at least have mid pair (especially if UTG called 2).

Hope this helps!

[Fantam]

I think that the preflop call is a bit marginal, but I wouldnt overly criticize you for it.

I think that I would have preferred for you to lead out with a bet on the flop. That might enable you to 3-bet if UTG+1 raised.

I quite like the turn bet as a semi-bluff, because you might have some fold equity and you have a lot of outs to improve your hand.

I wouldnt bet the river, because you would be unlikely to be called by a worse hand. However if you check, UTG+1 might bet unimproved overcards. So I would check/call the river as the pot has become quite big and you might have the best hand.

Folding the river is a big mistake. You are heads up against someone that has a VPIP of 45% since he sat down. No reason to give him credit for a made hand. Sure most of the time you lose but you will be good way to often to fold in this big pot.

[aK13]

This is a very easy call from the BB.

I would usually lead this flop.

I hate the turn lead.

[MN_Mime]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that I would have preferred for you to lead out with a bet on the flop. That might enable you to 3-bet if UTG+1 raised.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't sure that I wanted to keep customers on this hand. I felt it would be checked to the raiser who would bet whether he hit or not and that I'd have the opportunity to blow people out of the pot. I have 15 outs, twice (9 spades, 2 4s, 3 6s, and a BSD) but I'm vulnerable to redraws and there's an outside chance that I'm ahead on the flop. If I'm headsup against PFR, I'm a clear favorite.

After running it through Pokerstove, I've nearly 45% equity on the flop, so you're right. I should have led this flop, hoped for a raise, and trusted my edge.

I wonder if I'm better leading and just calling the raise to keep players interested and then check-raising the turn? I might have trapped UTG+1 for a bet/call instead of losing him when I faced him with 2 bets.

Is 3-betting a raise the best action on the flop? It probably folds out the callers (which is good) but may not extract the most out of the hand.

[ QUOTE ]
I quite like the turn bet as a semi-bluff, because you might have some fold equity and you have a lot of outs to improve your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks! The turned OESD improved my equity slightly and getting it headsup against PFR made me a 2:1 favorite. I couldn't count on a bet from him after my check-raise (this cost me money twice).

If I just bet/call the flop, do you think I am better leading or c/r the turn?

[MN_Mime]

[ QUOTE ]
Folding the river is a big mistake. You are heads up against someone that has a VPIP of 45% since he sat down. No reason to give him credit for a made hand. Sure most of the time you lose but you will be good way to often to fold in this big pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely. I think any ace, top pair, or middle pair pretty much plays back at me when I check the river.

Do you think a middle pair is just calling down now or does a river bet have any chance of folding him?

You're not folding a better hand. Worse yet you don't want to get raised. I check hope he bets again with AK, AJ, KJ or something.