Listening to your spidey-senses a.k.a. super-passive KK

haakee · #1 08-29-2005, 12:49 AM

Bellagio 80-160. The game is good because of a superdonk who's very passive. The villain in this hand is a 2+2 caliber player who lurks here. He is very familiar with how I play and we discuss strategy often and have logged many hours at the same tables. He has a lot of respect for my play. Neither the villain nor I are accustomed to playing in games where there is a 5-bet cap.

Superdonk limps in EP, villain raises in MP. Button who is new but appears loose cold-calls. I 3-bet from the SB with K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. BB who is slightly loose but seems okay cold-calls. Superdonk cold-calls. Villain 4-bets. Button cold-calls. I cut two stacks of chips behind the line, look at the villain and decide to just call. BB and EP call.

Flop: J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Checked to the villain who bets. Button calls, I call, BB folds, superdonk calls.

Turn is a blank. Checked to the villain who bets. Button folds. I call. Superdonk folds.

River is another blank. I check. Villain bets. I call.

The Truth · #2 08-29-2005, 02:14 AM

Maybe...but

I don't like it.

Cap preflop.

Raise the flop.

I can understand slowing down, especially by the turn.
However, you need to punish the 2 fishes in the hand. If this were heads up the whole time, I could see some merit to the way you played it. However, I would suggest capping preflop and then just calling down if he doesn't stop.

With the other guys in padding the pot, put more money in the pot.

haakee · #3 09-03-2005, 02:11 PM

Villain had AA and I lose the minimum. My read was good, but perhaps I should've thrown more money in there somewhere.

TStoneMBD · #4 09-03-2005, 02:15 PM

would he have played QQ preflop this way? JJ? AK? if yes to any of these hands, you are giving up way too much value from the other players by not capping.

haakee · #5 09-03-2005, 02:18 PM

JJ, no. QQ, probably.

TStoneMBD · #6 09-03-2005, 02:38 PM

villain only needs to 4bet QQ preflop 25% of the time and AA 75% of the time for KK to have neutral equity with 3 other players in the hand. so it appears that hot and cold preflop equity makes this a clear cap.

however, important determining factors are the following;

if you cap, will villain potentially lay down QQ on a postflop street?

by capping preflop, you will probably lose 3/3.5BBs when behind yet win 2.5BBs when ahead. by the line you took you only lose 2.5BBs.

from my limited judgment, i would say that if villain will 4bet a weaker hand 50% of the time preflop and wont fold QQ postflop, then you have yourself a cap.

Mikey · #7 09-03-2005, 05:08 PM

Listen I'm going to say something to you. When your spidey sense says whatever it says listen to it, it is far better than anyone person can teach you.

Good read.

Subfallen · #8 09-04-2005, 03:44 AM

Fold the turn. You're not getting odds to draw to your 2-outer. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

#9 09-04-2005, 05:31 AM

[quote. The villain in this hand is a 2+2 caliber player who lurks here. He is very familiar with how I play and we discuss strategy often and have logged many hours at the same tables. He has a lot of respect for my play.
Villain 4-bets. Button cold-calls. I cut two stacks of chips behind the line, look at the villain and decide to just call.

To me this says it all. You knew you were beat right here. You three bet out of the SB (a showing of great strength) into a raising player who knows you have a great deal of respect for his play and he raises you. There a very few players I play against who I give a great deal of credit to and they likewise to me but when I'm up against one of them I know to be very careful and you did, too. I wish I was good enough to fold the turn here when either a K or a heart don't hit but they are oh so hard to release are'nt they?