Stealing Blinds (looking for advice)

[DaNoob]

Between playing in a decent number of NL tournaments lately and reading the posts on this site, I've noticed a major trend when it comes to playing in the middle/late stages of a tournament: there are always 1-2 players who attempt to steal the blinds on a regular basis.

I am usually a tightish player, waiting for big hands to double my stack and usually don't mess around with stealing. I have noticed, however, that these guys seem to do pretty well (in general) and am wondering if I'm missing a key strategy. I know that they often raise with awful cards and usually get away with it. Yet, I still get nervous about open raising when I've got nothing to back it.

Are there general guidelines for attempting steals, ie:
1. what hands/position should you steal with?

2. how do you play the flop (when it misses you) if someone calls your attempt but does not raise?

3. when should you defend your SB/BB against a habitual stealer?

I know that most of these questions could be answered with "It depends", but looking for some general advice. I have done pretty well with my style, but wonder if I'm missing out on easy money.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[cferejohn]

Well, lets see. Generally these things should make you more prone to steal:

1. There are no players in (in NL, you can even steal when there are limpers, but it is risky and it takes a big bet).

2. You are in late position.

3. The game is shorthanded. This is true not only because there are fewer players, but because the blinds are going to hit you more frequently and you need to steal to stay afloat.

4. You have a larger stack than the blinds, but their stack is not so small that they may go all-in (unless your hand is strong enough and your chip-lead over them is large enough that you don't mind.

5. How willing are these players to defend their blinds? And more importantly, if they defend, do they tend to call, or come back over the top? If they tend to come back over the top of suspected steals, you probably want to wait until you have very strong hands.

I rarely straight steal unless I am playing 3 handed or heads up. Usually when I raise with the hope of getting everyone to drop, I have a hand that I at least think *might* be the best in a heads-up situation (i.e. pocket pair, Ax).

A little rambling, that, but did it help?

[Moose]

Noob,

when deciding whether to steal in NL tourneys, the obvious key factor is what percentage of the time the blinds will fold. One of the first things I do in an NL tourney is size up who I am up against. Almost all of the battle in NL tourneys is for the blinds (as opposed to limit, where a lot more multi-way flops occur). Watch how people defend their blind, and what hand to take against it.

Make sure it's hands you can handle a reraise with. Usually this means absolute crap, and I do mean absolute crap - you "handle" the reraise by mucking. If you try a steal-raise with 6-2 offsuit, someone smooth calls you, and you hit any kind of big flop (J62, 22x etc) you will make a huge score.

Typically, the advice is to shy away from trying to steal with above average hands you would hate to have to face a reraise with. The canonical examples are hands like AQ suited and medium pocket pairs. Go ahead and raise with these hands if you know exactly what you will do in the case of a reraise, such as in the late stages of the tournament where you well suspect to have the best hand anyways even if played back at.

If a blind calls your raise, and you are stealing with cheese, yet you catch a decent piece of the flop (such as the 6-2 example on a board of 633, 754 etc), and you are checked into, do not be scared to check behind. One of the most difficult times in poker is to catch a piece of the flop when you were stealng with crap, then have to decide how to handle a check-raise, and rest assured, most skilled players WILL expect you to bet any non-threatening flop automatically.

I say "6-2 offsuit" because I attempted exactly such a steal against an experienced player, who merely called in the BB and the flop cames T53. He checked, and I checked behind. He was stunned that I checked but dutifully moved all-in when the 4 hits, and his set of tens went down in smoke. And, for what it's worth, the next 3 times I raised preflop - all with BIG hands as you can imagine! - someone went over the top.

Against habitual stealers, the answer is simple: all-in reraise. Generally you have to do this but once and they will "get the message". A good time for this play is A> when you think they are stealing and B> you have a hand that will do well against the types of hands they are likely to call with (in case they weren't). For that reason, I would almost never do such a play with A9 offsuit but would easily do it with 76 suited. This works especially well in live tournaments against both skilled and/or egotistical players who are more likely to lay down because they don't want to "coin toss" you when they think they can massively outplay you later.

Hope that helps, that's just some general ideas I've discovered, but as I am only a mediocre NL tourney player, your mileage may vary.

M.

[CrazyAzn]

I believe that stealing is pretty much essential in becoming a good tourney player. especially in the smaller brick and mortar tourneys/online sit and go tourneys where blinds are significant portions of a players stack in mid-late stages.

if u dont steal and wait for a hand, you will likely get blinded down to a stack that is insignificant to the blind structure. many players used to playing ring games do not adjust and rarely defend their blinds when they are short stacked so stealing is extremely profitable. it is hard to steal w/ rags the first few times, but after u see the % success you have on complete rocks w/ short stacks i guarantee you will loosen up your standards.

if u dont steal, and rarely defend your blinds, then you are merely hoping to pick up a big hand and win big pots, you will have very little success unless everyone at your table is playing loose, or noone is stealing.

peter

[DaNoob]

It did make sense, and thanks for the advice. One follow-up question for you: if there is a habitual stealer after you, is it fair to assume he'll fold to your raise?

[DaNoob]

Great thoughts. I had been waiting until I hit a good hand to raise, but your suggestion about stealing with crap makes a lot of sense - easier to drop that way.

I'll have to try this in some cheap games and see how it goes...

[DaNoob]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
if u dont steal, and rarely defend your blinds, then you are merely hoping to pick up a big hand and win big pots, you will have very little success unless everyone at your table is playing loose, or noone is stealing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I must be lucky then, since I have done fairly well without stealing. I definitely need to integrate it into my game though. BTW, did I see you playing micro limit HE at Stars last night?

[ohkanada]

1) As others have said stealing is critical in your longterm success in tournies. If you only wait for big hands to raise with good opponents will notice. Plus although you may do well when the cards are coming, there will be many tournies where you get nothing and will be at risk of blinding away.

NL is a game of position, stack and players. Know the stacks of your opponents. On-line that is easy. Don't try a pure steal against someone who is almost all-in. If the stacks are very deep then you are more likely to be called. Know your opponents who are in the blinds and in positions after you. Good players will know you are stealing so when you get re-raised after raising in late position, understand that it may be a re-steal and react based on your cards. As far as your position button/cutoff are the obvious steal positions.

As far as what hands to do it with, I would rather have some type of hand. Some high card strength, any pair or connected. Against some players you can steal everytime. You should have some plan what you will do when/if you get re-raised.

As your stack gets smaller, you need to be prepared to attempt to steal in many other situations. Don't get blinded down to nothing.

Finally stealing prepares you for shorthanded play. As much of that is stealing and restealing.

2) I hate going broke on a steal gone bad. That doesn't mean you shouldn't bet a missed flop but don't lose your stack with nothing.

3) This is easier said than done. There are a few ways to do it. You can re-steal by re-raising. You can call and then bet out on the flop or call and check-raise. With crap just fold. Let your opponent think you are an easy fold and then eventually re-raise. Sometimes I will decide to re-raise ahead of time to with any 2. Remember that they occasionally have real cards [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Ken Poklitar

[cferejohn]

As long as your raise is big enough, yes. I would raise him at least the amount of his raise (i.e. if he raised 3x the BB, then I would re-raise 6-8x the BB). There is always the danger that either a) you are wrong about his steal-raising and he's just been getting good cards or b) you went over the top when he happened to actually have a hand. Its just a matter of trusting your read. Usually if you do it once , it will stop him from doing it so often (at least as far as your blinds are concerned), and you can probably assume that he has some kind of hand the next time he raises your blinds.

[cferejohn]

I would amend this a little and say you shouldn't try to steal with a good-but-not-great hand (i.e. AJ, KQs, 99) from early position or when there have been one or more limpers, becuase you risk someone coming over the top and then having to make a tough decision. However, stealing from the CO or button with these sorts of hands is OK, since they figure to be the best hand (which I guess is not technically 'stealing'). In a limit tourney you might raise with these if the table was tight, because it could knock out stronger hands and the degree to which you could be 'penalized' is limited.