A Simple Question With No Simple Answer

[UOPokerPlayer]

I’m posting this in both No-Limit forums.

After finishing a pretty substantial bonus run which involved doing almost the entire Bonus Whoring 101, (except for cryptological.) I got to thinking of where I want to go in poker. Whether or not it’s just a hobby, or if it is something I can consider doing professionally (in the short-term). The bonus whore run swelled my bankroll substantially to the point where I can realistically commit 4k to poker, and be essentially even. Back in January, that number was $500. This may not be that great of a jump, but I just didn’t play that much. Nevertheless, I’m pretty confident I’m a winning player. My biggest detractors before that I still (much less often) suffer from are mental breakdowns. The kind where I make a call or raise and after say, “why the hell did I do that?” It’s more boredom than tilt, and oddly enough, it doesn’t happen the few times I’ve played up a level. I’m pretty sure this is because I have a more overall focus on the game; it means more to me. Those sort of breakdowns is what I’d say is my biggest leak.

My poker stats: I was 15ptbb/100 at 25nl over about 30k hands. After that I’ve played about 20k hands at NL50 and am beating that for 12ptbb/100. I feel good overall, and I did have struggles at 25 and 50 which have been overcome in my mind. After about 10k hands at NL25 I was 7ptbb/100 and after 5k at NL50 I was 5ptbb/100. I see improvement in the stats and in observing my play.

So, right now I have 4,000 dollars and am ready to put that into the Party (and skins) NL100. I only play 6-max. My goal is to beat that for 10ptbb/100. I’ve played up there before and did exceptionally well. I ran well also, so my 1k hands don’t really have any substantiality. I felt comfortable at those tables and my reads were right on for the most part. Also, I was excited and engrossed in the game, something that I’ve lost at NL50. That’s the short term, though. Long term; I want to play 1000NL, and I want to beat that game. It’s as simple as that.

A little more about me. I’ve always done very well at math, I finished calculus in high school, don‘t plan on taking math in college. I scored a 1570 on my SAT’s. I’m going into my second year of college and all signs point to law school and a profession of that sort. I’m living in a house next year with three friends, and will likely stay there over the summer, (pretty empty when schools out=lots of poker). I live about 90 minutes from my parent’s house. My poker reading hs included TOP, HPFAP, Pot-Limit and No-Limit, HOH 1 and 2, TPFAP, Caro’s Book of Tells, Winning Low-Limit Hold-em, and a whole lot of 2+2. I use PT and Gametime plus. I play some MTT’s to kill the monotony (party (10-30), lots of runners) and have final tabled twice (5th and 10th) out of I’d say 30 tournaments. When I play cash games, I usually two table, then three table, then 4-table, then move up.

The real question behind all this babble is what do I have to do to get where I want to be? I’m doing very well, but I’m still playing small stakes poker and getting paid by fish playing terrible. I want more. Is the key to just play a lot? I feel like that’s the only think I’m lacking, but I’d like to hear from people who have done this. All advice greatly appreciated.

[rwanger]

The short answer is that you seem to be doing extremely well, and I doubt you'll have too many problems as long as you move up slowly.

As you move up, you might have to start mixing up your play (if you aren't already). And if you have been making this money from playing tight aggressive, you might find you'll need to become a little more loose aggressive when you move up to higher limits.

Of course, I'm only playing 200nl right now. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] But that has been my experience moving up from 25nl over the course of the last year.

As long as you can stay positive and motivated about poker, you should do well.

[autobet]

[ QUOTE ]
I’m doing very well, but I’m still playing small stakes poker and getting paid by fish playing terrible. I want more. Is the key to just play a lot?

[/ QUOTE ]

Feeding off fish can actually hurt your game. ABC play gets the money, and advanced/expert plays often are -EV against the fish. There is nothing wrong with feeding off fish, as this is the surest way to win consistently.

To be able to move up successfully you will need to gain experience in the tougher games, study, and learn when and how often to use the more advanced plays (ie. delayed bluff, inducing bluffs, stop and go). You will also need to eliminate any betting patterns you may have that you can get away with against most players in the smaller games.

[Shaun]

With 4000$, you can play the 100's comfortably. You could play the 200's, but you might want to wait until you have 30 buy-ins. That probably won't take long. Once you get to the 200's, play for a while and build your roll to about 12k, then take a shot at the 400's. Bascially whenever you get to 30 buy-ins for the next level up, take a shot. If things go badly at first, drop back down.

[JKratzer]

Take it slow, bankroll management is the #1 thing to focus on. Get the experience and always try to improve your game. Sounds like you have the potential to do well, best of luck.

JKratzer

[fimbulwinter]

This does not make sense to me:

15PTBB/100 for 30K hands @ 25NL should be ~2200

12PTBB/100 for 20K hands @ 50NL should be ~2400

if you were whoring even semi-correctly, bonuses at that level should give you at least another 2-4K.

whatever. to be honest this seems like a borderline brag post, seeing as there's really no question and nothing to discuss, but i'll give you an honest response:

you're BR'd for the 100 games and ready for them, so play 20K hands there and see how it goes. as for wanting to play better poker against better players, don't. the players that pay you, still, are fishy players who make bad moves. I know you may be anxious to FPS around, but the money comes from ABC and FPS'ing other good players that you have a very solid read on.

also, this ostensibly belongs in the other forum.

fim

[UOPokerPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
This does not make sense to me:

15PTBB/100 for 30K hands @ 25NL should be ~2200

12PTBB/100 for 20K hands @ 50NL should be ~2400

if you were whoring even semi-correctly, bonuses at that level should give you at least another 2-4K.

whatever. to be honest this seems like a borderline brag post, seeing as there's really no question and nothing to discuss, but i'll give you an honest response:

you're BR'd for the 100 games and ready for them, so play 20K hands there and see how it goes. as for wanting to play better poker against better players, don't. the players that pay you, still, are fishy players who make bad moves. I know you may be anxious to FPS around, but the money comes from ABC and FPS'ing other good players that you have a very solid read on.

also, this ostensibly belongs in the other forum.

fim

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for calling me out on this, as this looking like a brag post was my biggest concern. As for the numbers, I've spent a lot of the money that I've won on stuff that has nothing to do with poker. As for the bonuses, well I say I've made 750 total on that and 500 was in the last week, so I pretty much suck at bonus-whoring. I also don't like playing on different interfaces for whatever stupid reason.

You're right about the FPS that I have. I try not to do it, but I'd say it's hurt my winrate by not making the basic ABC when it's necessary.

I really take to advice what you say about not changing the game I play. There will still be fish at the 100NL as well as the 400NL, and I shouldn't play any different against fishy players whether I'm playing for $50 pots or $500 pots.

I feel really good about the responses, because no one has really pointed out anything I'm doing incredibly wrong. I was mostly just seeing what people who have made the move from SSNL to MHNL gradually found to be important and trying. Thanks again for the responses, this may be something that only time will tell.

[Liv Tyler]

[ QUOTE ]

I really take to advice what you say about not changing the game I play. There will still be fish at the 100NL as well as the 400NL, and I shouldn't play any different against fishy players whether I'm playing for $50 pots or $500 pots.


[/ QUOTE ]

The less skilled players at different levels exhibit different weaknesses (except for the TOTAL idiots.) Be aware of this. To paraphrase fim, play ABC against the unaware, and use deceptive play against the people who are actually watching and thinking about what you do.

I'd say the biggest thing you can do is concentrate on your play rather than your results. There is no magic number of PTBBs at the lower levels that you have to hit before you can move up, and doing well at these levels doesn't guarantee you can beat the higher games. You haven't told us what your style is, how comfortable you are with it, how you've adjusted as you moved up the first couple levels, and so on. Hopefully, you are thinking about these things.

As you move up, eliminating those mental lapses becomes more and more important. One mistake a day that costs a stack at the NL400 is $146,000 a year. I have the same problem, and I keep reminding myself of that.