4To

[mojolang]

2/4 game, pretty typical. I get 4To in BB five players, I get a free play

Flop:
K [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img]

Checked around
Turn: T [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img]

I bet 2 callers

River:6 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img]

I bet and I get raised. I think about it, though the player was pretty crazy, I felt that there was no way he could put a move on me like this and I thought "Does he want me to call?" I convinced myself the answer was yes and I mucked. He turned over KQo. I felt like puking. I thought there was no way that he didn't have a hand with the straight on board and the third flush hit.

Whattya think? I's been he only time I've thrown away a pot for an extra bet and been wrong.

[Punker]

You don't think 2 pair will be good here 1/~8 times? I do. If you honestly mucked in this spot and make a habit of mucking in similar spots, I'd guess it's impossible that you have NEVER thrown away a pot for an extra bet here (why did your opponent show you his hand here anyways? Maybe you've thrown away many pots convincing yourself that "the guy had it").

If you can't call here, you shouldn't bet the river. I would also have puked when I saw your opponent's hand, but with revulsion at how he played it.

[mojolang]

I agree, what I meant is that I've never thrown my hand away and been proven wrong. I rarely do it b/c the pot is so big by that point, but I've been raised so many times by calling stations at the river that I felt he had to have it. Maybe my mind is just warped from getting drawn out on. He showed me the hand because he is a pretty sociable guy, and I thought for awhile about keeping or mucking the hand. I don't normally think for awhile (don't wanna discourage any bad behavior) but this time I did as the game wasn't that terrible. Thanx for your input.

Joe

[elysium]

hi moj,
well played. instead of folding the river moj, you could have reraised this guy. that is an option to use once a week or so. not often.

the important thing here is how well you played the rest of the game. i don't have to tell you that you must call here. sometimes the opponent wants you to call. he slow-played you here. and that's what you must consider heads up.

if this had been a 3-way and you were in the middle, and he bet into you two, and you have two pair, and in the lead, how would you feel then? would you think that he expects a call now?

in heads up action; forget about that example for a second here moj; will you forget about it? listen, in heads up action, he wanted the call. what you picked up on was his wanting you to call, but he wasn't positive that you would in fact call, only hopeful. but you couldn't figure that out. it was too blurry from a perceptional aspect. because you have to go pa, pa, pa, papity, cha....pa, pa,PA. and there is too much to figure out. you ask, is he hoping i'll call, or does he think i'll call; and if so, would he if he knew what i was holding? and of course moj, the correct answer is to call the bet and think it over. in heads up action, what your opponent is thinking gets blurred because of the number of opponents in the hand. of all the people at the table, he's thinking, what are the odds that you can beat his top pair? he doesn't understand that you no longer hold a random holding. also the check around. also, your holding is hidden. he wants you to call, he probably hasn't considered himself if he expets it. if you had something he could put you on; if you were UTG here instead, and had raised in, you could give more credence to his raise. now he expects you to call AND he fears a powerhouse. if he is non-tricky and non-wild, you CAN have better reasons for laying it down, but even here, if the heads up makes things ticklish, even here moj nothing wrong with a call.

[Nottom]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
If you can't call here, you shouldn't bet the river. I would also have puked when I saw your opponent's hand, but with revulsion at how he played it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree ... I think a check-call here is in order since many people will often toss a bluff out when the 3rd flush card hits and it is checked to them.