standard against two random hands?

soweak. · #1 08-15-2005, 10:12 PM

MP3 and CO are new to the table as of this hand. MP3 is unknown however CO is weak/tight 12/4/.9 after 300 hands. read my comments after the HH for my thinking on each street.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $3. CO posts a blind of $3.
5 folds, MP3 (poster) checks, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, CO raises, SB folds, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (5 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, Hero raises, MP3 folds, CO calls.

River: (9 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets

Flop: pretty standard against 3 virtually random hands. I expect to take it down here about most of the time unless I get played with. with the weak/tight player raising me I figure he has either a better 5, or checked 66, or just puts me on a steal and thinks he can take it away from me. Either way I decide there are lots of cards I can use to bluff if I decide to on the turn.

Turn: With this card I immediatly decided planned to check/raise, as this is a good card to bluff with. He could have J5, or J4, or 4x, but I'd expect this player to not raise my flop bet if his hand contained a 4.His raise which I felt was an attempt to take down the hand on the turn, could be a large number of things. I figure if I get 3-bet, I at least have a good ammount of outs to better two pair, flush, or full house. I decided since he only called to pretty much bet any river card.

River: This is the last bet I decide to put into the pot. If he calls I expect to split a large number of times here. Raise here and I'm done as I expect him only raising with hands I cannot win against.

thoughts/comments/criticizms/questions all welcome and encouraged.

Nick C · #2 08-15-2005, 10:36 PM

Is your read on CO based on observation or mainly just on stats? I ask because I don't think 12/4/0.9 guys are necessarily postflop folders. I'm not sure how likely a tight-passive is to be a folder, but I'm throwing the thought out there that maybe tight-passives don't fold as much as one might assume. I think I remember StellarWind saying something to that effect once. Anyway, it's something I'm curious about. To some extent, people who are very tight and passive kind of escape my attention at the table, to be honest. I just don't get to see them playing very many hands and am usually paying more attention to the LAGs and loose-passives.

Anyway, though, your play in the hand seems all right to me.

soweak. · #3 08-15-2005, 10:47 PM

I agree, normally against a tight passive player I will not try a river bluff with 3rd pair. However, since he really hasn't invest pre-flop here, I find players are much more likely to fold when they havn't voluntarily limp, even passive ones. even if he calls me down with, say Q5, I still split. He will really have a hard time putting me on a worse hand here.

As far as my read goes it is mostly his stats when he posted, but I also have a one liner in his player notes that reads: "folds a lot post flop."

Nick C · #4 08-15-2005, 11:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
As far as my read goes it is mostly his stats when he posted, but I also have a one liner in his player notes that reads: "folds a lot post flop."

[/ QUOTE ]

The turn checkraise seems like a good play to me.

On the river, you have to wonder what better/equal hand Villain would call with on the turn that he'll fold now, but firing one last time seems all right to me. Maybe CO will decide that that king is just one too many overcards or something. Or maybe he called the turn hoping you'd give up and wouldn't bet the river.

Redd · #5 08-15-2005, 11:09 PM

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The turn checkraise seems like a good play to me.

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Could you elaborate? It seems like we just risked checking a marginal hand through, gave up some fold equity versus continuation-leading, blew out the third player only after we knew that we weren't going to take it down on the turn, and possibly paid 2BB to draw instead of one against a TP with 2PNK.

Nick C · #6 08-15-2005, 11:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The turn checkraise seems like a good play to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you elaborate? It seems like we just risked checking a marginal hand through, gave up some fold equity versus continuation-leading, blew out the third player only after we knew that we weren't going to take it down on the turn, and possibly paid 2BB to draw instead of one against a TP with 2PNK.

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A bet would be a stop-n-go.

I think a turn checkraise is a scarier follow-up to our flop bet-call. It imitates a very standard Party way of playing big hands.

If we can't take it down and need to improve to win, I'll admit that the checkraise does cut down on the odds we're getting on our draw. So there certainly is that potential drawback.