Middle Pair

waynethetrain · #1 08-15-2005, 12:21 PM

Considering the pre-flop action, am I supposed to bet this flop to see where I am?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

mojobluesman · #2 08-15-2005, 01:01 PM

I think the flop bet is OK because it's tough to narrow down the opponent's hands. He re-raised pre-flop, but you raised first in from middle position and for all we know he re-raised with a middle pair to isolate. I think you have to bet to find out if you are ahead or behind. IMO, the flop raise strongly suggested you are behind. I'm not even sure I would have called that flop raise, but I guess you could look at one more because it's HU.

Durs522 · #3 08-15-2005, 01:21 PM

NH - I don't think there is a single hand that he would 3 bet with preflop that we beat on the turn.

I don't think there's anything wrong with betting this flop. Once we are raised I call and check/fold the turn UI.

Durs

MrWookie47 · #4 08-15-2005, 02:21 PM

I don't bet this flop. Even AK might raise you, and then you've learned nothing.

waynethetrain · #5 08-15-2005, 04:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't bet this flop. Even AK might raise you, and then you've learned nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what do you do, check and fold?

If you check, the player is highly likely to bet overcards, a lower pocket pair etc.... If you fold to that bet, you will be folding best hand for 1 SB a lot of the time in a pretty decent sized pot. If it was a very small pot, I could see this scenario.

If you call the bet, you still don't know if you are ahead or behind and may feel compelled to call a turn/river bet if rags come out on those 2 streets because you could still easily be ahead. That could get expensive if you are behind.

Granted, you could get raised by AK, learn nothing, and still fold best hand, but I think that is a less likely scenario than getting raised by a better hand and giving yourself a chance to exit quickly or giving yourself a chance to win with a bet.

If my thinking is incorrect, please let me know because that's why I posted this hand. It's not clear to me. I'm just elaborating on my thinking at the time.

MrWookie47 · #6 08-15-2005, 05:03 PM

You've already blown an extra SB to see a turn card that told you you were behind. You didn't need him to raise (and then call that raise) to tell you that. I check/call, and reevaluate on the turn. After that, it's reads. Will this guy fire on all 3 streets with a UI AK? Yes? Calling down may be profitable depending on how the cards fall. No? Well, at what point do you know you're beaten? Fold then.

Chance to win with a bet? AK folds here virtually never, and if it's TT, I'm just fine letting him bluff his money away on a 3.5 outer or so.