Call this River Raise?

waynethetrain · #1 08-15-2005, 09:42 AM

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, Hero caps, SB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (11 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (14 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero ?

Final Pot: 18 BB

jnh24 · #2 08-15-2005, 09:44 AM

I think you are safe to fold.

And depending on your read of SB, why did you not cap the flop or raise the turn?

waynethetrain · #3 08-15-2005, 09:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you are safe to fold.

And depending on your read of SB, why did you not cap the flop or raise the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I had seen, he was playing TAG, but I only saw about 35 hands at that point. Considering the heavy pre-flop action and his re-raise on the flop I thought it was more likely he had AA than QQ or JJ. We had the 3rd player in the middle. So I suppose a good case could be made for capping the flop/re-raising the turn to find out.

MrWookie47 · #4 08-15-2005, 10:15 AM

I think I cap this flop. I'm not convinced you're not up against QQ or JJ yet. If you cap and he's still coming after you on the turn, then call. The river sucks. It's not a bluff. He's beating you.

tiltaholic · #5 08-15-2005, 10:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, Hero caps, SB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (11 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (14 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero ?

Final Pot: 18 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

hey. if you are not capping the flop you should call the 3-bet with the intention of allowing him to lead into you on the turn so you can raise.

yes, i fold the river.

edit:for engrish.

DCWildcat · #6 08-15-2005, 10:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]

hey. if you are not capping the flop you should calling the 3-bet with the intention of allowing him to lead into you on the turn so you can raise.

yes, i fold the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

bingo

Dave G. · #7 08-15-2005, 10:36 AM

Only call this river if you hate money.

adsman · #8 08-15-2005, 10:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you are safe to fold.

And depending on your read of SB, why did you not cap the flop or raise the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I had seen, he was playing TAG, but I only saw about 35 hands at that point. Considering the heavy pre-flop action and his re-raise on the flop I thought it was more likely he had AA than QQ or JJ. We had the 3rd player in the middle. So I suppose a good case could be made for capping the flop/re-raising the turn to find out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm more interested in your read of UTG+1. If he is a good player, could he be raising the river with a marginal hand because he doesn't want overcalls?

deception5 · #9 08-15-2005, 11:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
From what I had seen, he was playing TAG, but I only saw about 35 hands at that point. Considering the heavy pre-flop action and his re-raise on the flop I thought it was more likely he had AA than QQ or JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think QQ/JJ would play this hand differently than AA up to this point? There are twice as many QQ/JJ combinations as AA combinations so I think it's more likely he has one of those, especially if he's a tag.

waynethetrain · #10 08-15-2005, 11:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
From what I had seen, he was playing TAG, but I only saw about 35 hands at that point. Considering the heavy pre-flop action and his re-raise on the flop I thought it was more likely he had AA than QQ or JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think QQ/JJ would play this hand differently than AA up to this point? There are twice as many QQ/JJ combinations as AA combinations so I think it's more likely he has one of those, especially if he's a tag.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do think some players would not have re-raised me on the flop with QQ or JJ because once the pre-flop is capped and I come out raising on the flop, he has to start thinking high pair. If he has JJ, there are 3 pairs higher and the smaller probability of TT lower. If he has QQ, there are 2 pairs higher and JJ lower plus the smaller probability of TT. I'm not sure what the probabilities of AA are once he re-raises in this spot, but I'm pretty sure they are not equal to the potential hand distributions. I think AA is more likely than 1/3 vs QQ/JJ.