$10/$20 NL hand

johnnydingles · #1 08-14-2005, 01:40 AM

Playing 4 handed, everyone being pretty aggressive. I have about $2000, other 2 players have $2000 and one guy has $3000. I have KQ in the sb and its folded to me, and I make it $80, BB is the guy with $3000 and he makes it $170 which he's been doing a lot to try to get me to stop raising his blind. I figure he has a decent pair or fairly big Ace. With Ak he would have raised more. I call and flop comes 10 J Q. I check, and he makes it $500, what is my play here? I have top pair, good kicker, and open end straight draw. Now what?

macdafunk · #2 08-14-2005, 01:50 AM

i think you should bet the flop but given the agg table, 4 handed action, your flop check, i would move all in

savman · #3 08-14-2005, 01:52 AM

aeeeeewwwwwllllll eeeeeeennnnnnn

chuddo · #4 08-14-2005, 01:57 AM

i would have led the flop. but 4-handed i think all of my money is going in.

barely behind bottom two and top and bottom.

you may have him beat 77-23 if he is holding K-10 or K-J

but again i would have probably led the flop, hoping to get the money in easier. you have a banger.

tsa89 · #5 08-14-2005, 04:20 AM

I agree with the above posters but the only question I have is you said he has been doing that all night and defending his blinds, but was has his action been like on the flop after he has tried to defend his blinds. I still feel like you can push there with that hand.

macdafunk · #6 08-14-2005, 06:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i would have led the flop. but 4-handed i think all of my money is going in.

barely behind bottom two and top and bottom.

you may have him beat 77-23 if he is holding K-10 or K-J

but again i would have probably led the flop, hoping to get the money in easier. you have a banger.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't think you have to get it all in if you raise 2/3 the pot on the flop and he comes over the top big. that is why i like raising the flop.

cero_z · #7 08-14-2005, 06:33 AM

Hi johnny,

This spot is not as good as it looks. I think his bet of 500 is saying he's committed to showdown, and I believe him. Now the question is to figure out what he has, and how the matchup and pot odds compare.

Basically what I mean is that you need to determine if 2 pair or trips will be any good. I agree that AK is very unlikely given his line so far, but a set of T, J, Q seems possible. Maybe he would've also raised more with any of those pocket pairs, or maybe he just made the small reraise he'd been making a lot in hopes that you'd come over the top this time. Could he have AA/KK here? If you mostly rule out a set, then this is an easy all-in, I think. But I would play TT/JJ/QQ exactly like this under the circumstances you talked about. Obviously, AQ is a very possible hand for him. This would mean your Ks and Qs are no good, leaving you with 7 outs. Then again, he could have 99.

People may think I'm nuts for this, but I honestly could see myself folding this when I'm playing my best. If the guy is good, then there are a lot of hands that I'm going to be getting my money in bad against if I push, and not much folding equity when I want a fold. In the moment, it's pretty tough, but it's hard to see him making this flop bet with nothing, since he knows he could be running into a buzzsaw with that flop and your pf actions. I think you're in bad shape here, and you can still get away from it.

I think it's clear that if you choose to play, you have to push, because you need to see both of the next two cards, and pushing lets you do that while getting a good price. I'm just not sure pushing is worth it in this spot, where I see him rarely/never folding, and usually being about a 65% favorite.

Niwa · #8 08-14-2005, 01:40 PM

I thought I was the only one who considered folding this.

If you're gonna play - Push.

ChrisMonkeymaker · #9 08-14-2005, 01:46 PM

Make a probe bet on the flop by betting just over half the size of the pot. If he raises lots, you get out.

johnnydingles · #10 08-14-2005, 11:42 PM

You're right like usual Cero. His bet of $500 wasn't out of the normal if he hit the board, the question was how hard did he hit it. I felt I was good too often here to fold, and pushed after his bet. He had the set of queens, and I got no help. I just didn't think I could fold in that spot so easy, if the stacks were deeper yes, but if I make any sort of raise to see where I'm at, i'm pot committed. And leading the flop, he would reraise a lot the time here so that wouldn't tell me much either. I think the way the action went up to this point and the relative smallness of our stacks for this game, I think I go broke here almost every time. Opinions?

thanks for the replies so far.