Etiquette Questions

I have been lurking on the boards for about a year. I normally play online but decided I would check out the CNE casino this summer (probably a relative dump but it’s the most convenient). I have played live with friends but never for much money and it has always been NL freezeouts. After reading the newbie FAQ and reading a bunch of B&M threads I still have a couple of questions about etiquette. I realize that a lot of the answers may depend on the place/opponents but any guidance I could get would be appreciated.

A. What is considered an appropriate time to take while thinking about a decision. I don’t mean staring people down for information or trying to intimidate them. I just tend to take a little while when trying to recall people’s profiles and betting history.

B. I assume if someone says something different then they actually do (i.e. saying call but putting in raise worth of chips) that the verbal statement is what determines the action. Someone just confirm?

C. If am trying to make a decision about whether to fold/call or raise/call is it taboo to shuffle chips while I do it. Can other players use that as a signal to say that I was acting? While not a common habit I do it sometimes; but if it’s a bad idea ill make a more concerted effort to stop.

D. Are you able to stand up and move tables? How long should you generally wait before doing this. For example, online sometimes I know I am outclassed. At that point it makes no sense to compete over fish when I can just move tables.

E. Cashing out. Can I cash out part of my stack at anytime? Is this considered bad mannered?

F. Switching positions at a table? If someone leaves my table and I think it would be more advantageous to move (or even if it just to get the light out of my eyes or away from a bad chair or something), is it considered ok to switch seats. Should I ask permission?

G. If someone is in a position where they would have to show their hand, but they didn’t (for example, if there opponent acted faster). Is it in appropriate to ask to see their hand? Does my active presence in the hand make a difference?

H. If someone is consistently betting out of turn and the dealer isn’t doing anything, what should I do? Move tables, ask him to stop politely, suck it up?

I. Do people who show you their cards (when they bluff etc.) deserve to see your cards? Online I never reveal my hand and I assume that would be fine in real life to.

Thanks for all your help and if anyone who has been to the CNE casino this year has any advice I would glad to hear it.

[jba]

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A. What is considered an appropriate time to take while thinking about a decision. I don’t mean staring people down for information or trying to intimidate them. I just tend to take a little while when trying to recall people’s profiles and betting history.


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never more than 15-30 seconds, usually faster. if you're playing no limit and your stack is at stake you have more leeway. generally though just play it like the freeway and stick with the flow. You also don't want your opponents to realize how hard you are thinking.

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B. I assume if someone says something different then they actually do (i.e. saying call but putting in raise worth of chips) that the verbal statement is what determines the action. Someone just confirm?


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as a general statement, yes verbal declarations are binding.

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C. If am trying to make a decision about whether to fold/call or raise/call is it taboo to shuffle chips while I do it. Can other players use that as a signal to say that I was acting? While not a common habit I do it sometimes; but if it’s a bad idea ill make a more concerted effort to stop.


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just make sure your actions cannot be misconstrued as betting. Also, keep your chips behind your cards and the bet line, if there is one.

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D. Are you able to stand up and move tables? How long should you generally wait before doing this. For example, online sometimes I know I am outclassed. At that point it makes no sense to compete over fish when I can just move tables.


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ask the floorman for a table change, happens all the time. He may or may not let you have it.

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E. Cashing out. Can I cash out part of my stack at anytime? Is this considered bad mannered?


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It's against the rules in every card room I've played in. All the money on the table stays on the table. You can trade up chips, for example trade 100 $1 chips for 1 $100 chip, but the black chip stays on the table in play. Doing this will slow down the game and should be avoided unless you really need it, IMO.

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F. Switching positions at a table? If someone leaves my table and I think it would be more advantageous to move (or even if it just to get the light out of my eyes or away from a bad chair or something), is it considered ok to switch seats. Should I ask permission?


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ask the dealer for a seat change. happens all the time. he will definitely give it to you if no one has already asked for it.

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G. If someone is in a position where they would have to show their hand, but they didn’t (for example, if there opponent acted faster). Is it in appropriate to ask to see their hand? Does my active presence in the hand make a difference?


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technically you have the right if you were in the hand, but it is considered by many to be poor etiquette. If any other players saw the hand, you can invoke the "show one show all" rule, which is always fine.

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H. If someone is consistently betting out of turn and the dealer isn’t doing anything, what should I do? Move tables, ask him to stop politely, suck it up?


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politely demand that he stop. if it continues get the floor involved, if you need to. this is technically cheating and does not need to be tolerated.

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I. Do people who show you their cards (when they bluff etc.) deserve to see your cards? Online I never reveal my hand and I assume that would be fine in real life to.


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you never have to show your cards. TONS of live players do it, so it's up to you really. I rarely do unless it was inconsequential -- hey look you guys just folded to my big blind but I only have 83o, etc.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

Good. Now, let's sticky this and call it a FAQ.

[Jeffage]

A) In limit, make a decision quickly. In NL, thinking is more permissable, but don't overdo it to the point where you're delaying all the time.

B) Confirmed

C) People do this all the time. Just don't make a "forward motion" with the chips past your cards...it may then be considered a bet, depending on house rules. Shuffling chips behind your cards is no biggie.

D) If you don't like your table, ask the floorperson to put you on the transfer list. You will get a choice to move when a seat in a game of the same limit becomes available.

E) Games are table stakes. This is esp. important at NL. No money or chips can be removed from the table until you leave the game. All money won must stay in play till you quit.

F) You can switch seats. Process depends on the place: some places you request a seat change button and then are given first dibs to move when a seat opens at your table. Other places, you just ask and if there is a dispute, seniority determines who gets the seat. If you move more than 3 active players, you will have to post or wait for the blind.

G) Don't ask to see discarded hands. It is considered bad form...the rule is in place if you suspect collusion, not for free information. It is also rude to the loser.

H) Dealers will correct this. If they don't, speak to the floor.

I)Never show except to win a pot. Don't give information away. This is just my opinion, but poker is an information war...if someone shows me they are folding a strong hand to my raise, I don't want to give them info that they were right or wrong.

J)Good Luck!

Jeff

[Al_Capone_Junior]

OK, since you read the FAQ already, and showed some initiative, I'll answer your questions for you, to get you off to a good start...

A. What is considered an appropriate time to take while thinking about a decision. I don’t mean staring people down for information or trying to intimidate them. I just tend to take a little while when trying to recall people’s profiles and betting history.

You shouldn't need much time to make your decisions, but if you do, just call "time." I do occasionally call for time, usually when faced with a big bet or raise in no limit. You shouldn't take much more than a minute tho, even on tough decisions, as it's just annoying and slows the game down. If you take longer they might put a clock on you, and you don't want that.

B. I assume if someone says something different then they actually do (i.e. saying call but putting in raise worth of chips) that the verbal statement is what determines the action. Someone just confirm?

Generally verbal action made in turn is binding.

C. If am trying to make a decision about whether to fold/call or raise/call is it taboo to shuffle chips while I do it. Can other players use that as a signal to say that I was acting? While not a common habit I do it sometimes; but if it’s a bad idea ill make a more concerted effort to stop.

I constantly shuffle chips while playing. The key is that I keep them WAY behind my cards and / or the betting line, so there's NO confusion as to whether I'm making a bet or just shuffling chips. No one has ever successfully pulled an angle shot on me because of my chip shuffling, because I just make it way too plain that I'm shuffling and not betting. Just keep them way behind your cards and you'll be fine.

D. Are you able to stand up and move tables? How long should you generally wait before doing this. For example, online sometimes I know I am outclassed. At that point it makes no sense to compete over fish when I can just move tables.

You have to get floor approval to change tables. If you want to switch, just ask for a table change and they'll usually accomodate you either right away, or as soon as is appropriate. I sometimes scout games and change tables, it's no problem. Just get the floor to approve your change, you can't do it without asking.

E. Cashing out. Can I cash out part of my stack at anytime? Is this considered bad mannered?

Re-read table stakes in the FAQ. You can never remove money from the table once it's there, unless you are leaving and taking it all with you.

F. Switching positions at a table? If someone leaves my table and I think it would be more advantageous to move (or even if it just to get the light out of my eyes or away from a bad chair or something), is it considered ok to switch seats. Should I ask permission?

Just tell the dealer you want to switch seats if one opens. If you want the first available seat change, ask for "1st seat change." A few cardrooms have these buttons, and I love them. Makes it possible to get position certain players and that type of stuff.

G. If someone is in a position where they would have to show their hand, but they didn’t (for example, if there opponent acted faster). Is it in appropriate to ask to see their hand? Does my active presence in the hand make a difference?

Generally don't ask to see anyone's hand, it's just rude. Only if they have bet and I have called them might I insist on seeing their hand. Even then, If I likely have them beat, I might just show mine, take the pot and let them save face by tossing it in face down.

H. If someone is consistently betting out of turn and the dealer isn’t doing anything, what should I do? Move tables, ask him to stop politely, suck it up?

Kick him square in the nuts. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I. Do people who show you their cards (when they bluff etc.) deserve to see your cards? Online I never reveal my hand and I assume that would be fine in real life to.

I don't show my cards either, but if a guy is being chummy and constantly showing me his hands, I'll toss him a bone now and then and show him a few that don't give up much info. Of course I would never show him a successful bluff.

Good luck at the tables hoss.

al

[slickpoppa]

I didnt even read your questions, but I assume that one of them has something to do with tipping. The answer is: don't tip. It is a waste of money and the dealers will just spend it on 40s, lottery tickets, or teenage prostitutes if they are Asian. However, sometimes it is fun to tip a really insulting amount. Like if you win a $500 pot, throw a quarter at the dealer and hope it lands on the floor so they have to bend over to pick it up. Then ask them to chop it up. Make 'em work for that money.


<font color="white">...JK </font>

[zipo]

Well, about etiquette I can tell you what *not* to do, I guess.

I was playing in a 10/20 NL game at Bellagio last month, and had been having a pretty good run. Splashing around a lot, stealing a lot of pots, enjoying a few suckouts, and downing quite a few excellent cocktails. I was needling the other players in a good natured way, but it was a pretty grumpy table and the other fellows didn't seem to be enjoying themselves much.

Anyhoo, some grumpy old guy raises to 100 utg. I'm in the BB, and it folds to me. I peek at my cards, turn off my ipod, straighten up my shades, and shove in 2k worth of chips firmly saying "all in", and lean back in my chair.

I mean, I could tell the guy was a stiff - he wasn't even wearing shades. He tanks for a minute, then calls (I just had him covered) flipping over KK.

I show him my Q4 off, and hit a 4 on the flop and Q on the river. I don't even wait for the dealer, but reach out with both arms and drag the pot to me, and I tell the guy "Nice call, fish". I was just kidding around, but boy did he become unglued. He wasn't a small guy, and it's a good thing i outweighed hime by 200 pounds or so or I think he might have actually taken a swing at me.

Meanwhile, it's chaos at the table. The dealer admonishes me about scooping the pot myself, so I tell him just for his rudeness I won't be tipping him. That's one of my pet peeves, rude service workers, and I just don't tolerate that.

Anyway, I guess the poker etiquette lesson is just let the dealer push the pot to you when you take it down.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

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Well, about etiquette I can tell you what *not* to do, I guess.

I was playing in a 10/20 NL game at Bellagio last month, and had been having a pretty good run. Splashing around a lot, stealing a lot of pots, enjoying a few suckouts, and downing quite a few excellent cocktails. I was needling the other players in a good natured way, but it was a pretty grumpy table and the other fellows didn't seem to be enjoying themselves much.

Anyhoo, some grumpy old guy raises to 100 utg. I'm in the BB, and it folds to me. I peek at my cards, turn off my ipod, straighten up my shades, and shove in 2k worth of chips firmly saying "all in", and lean back in my chair.

I mean, I could tell the guy was a stiff - he wasn't even wearing shades. He tanks for a minute, then calls (I just had him covered) flipping over KK.

I show him my Q4 off, and hit a 4 on the flop and Q on the river. I don't even wait for the dealer, but reach out with both arms and drag the pot to me, and I tell the guy "Nice call, fish". I was just kidding around, but boy did he become unglued. He wasn't a small guy, and it's a good thing i outweighed hime by 200 pounds or so or I think he might have actually taken a swing at me.

Meanwhile, it's chaos at the table. The dealer admonishes me about scooping the pot myself, so I tell him just for his rudeness I won't be tipping him. That's one of my pet peeves, rude service workers, and I just don't tolerate that.

Anyway, I guess the poker etiquette lesson is just let the dealer push the pot to you when you take it down.

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Brilliant.

[McNeese72]

troll! :-)

[SheridanCat]

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Well, about etiquette I can tell you what *not* to do, I guess.


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You forgot the part where you flip the table over and service both the grumpy guy and the dealer simultaneously.

Nice post. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

T