Playing the player - forget PT for a second

Roadstar · #1 08-09-2005, 01:34 AM

Villain just sat down recently, nothing reliable from PT. But please follow the hands I played with him and analyze how I should play the final hand. Thanks!

SB is Villain here. I think relatively straight forward hand. Although Villain's donking is out of this world I thought.
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (10 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (6 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.

River: (10 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB

Results in white below: 
SB has Qd 4s (two pair, aces and tens).
Hero has As Kd (full house, aces full of tens).
Outcome: Hero wins 14 BB. 

I see Villain playing somewhat LAG but not too crazy yet, although he seems to have little starting hand selection. Villain is MP here. I thought I was pretty sure I was ahead of villain throughout the hand but really didn't like SB coming along. Did I overplay this? Call the raise on the river?
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero calls, MP calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, MP calls, CO folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Turn: (4 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP calls, SB calls.

River: (7 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP raises, SB folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has 8s 8d (two pair, nines and eights).
MP has Ad Kh (one pair, nines).
Outcome: Hero wins 11 BB. 

All this sets up this hand (no results posted). Lets try to put villain (he is UTG) on a hand?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, 3 folds, Hero checks.

Standard here.

Flop: (3.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, MP folds.

I know its mid pair, but I'm quite likely ahead of Villain so I was hoping MP would fold to a bet? (overplayed here?)
Turn: (2.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero calls.
Well MP is gone, HU with villain, thought the check/call route would work here, particularly with his propensity with raise w/ A Hi, I didn't want to make it too expensive to get to showdown.

River: (4.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, Hero calls.

River gives me 2 pair, I bet, he raises as usual, do you three bet here?? Villain caps, I call - what do you put him on now?

Thanks guys - hopefully this is something different from my other hand questions!

Final Pot: 12.75 BB

Wetdog · #2 08-09-2005, 01:50 AM

Hard to say, JT maybe? I bet/call the river. Sometimes the poker gods give donks good hands as a cruel joke.

Kumubou · #3 08-09-2005, 02:01 AM

Wow he seems just a wee bit maniacal.

The problem is he hasn't shown that he will raise your bet yet. As odd as it sounds, donking someone, c/ring someone, and raising someone's bet are three different things. With that said, I would 3-bet anyway and kick many a cat once he goes and caps, since I am almost sure I am boned.

-K

pistol78 · #4 08-09-2005, 02:17 AM

runner runner flush

Dopey · #5 08-09-2005, 02:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, 3 folds, Hero checks.

Standard here.

Flop: (3.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, MP folds.

I know its mid pair, but I'm quite likely ahead of Villain so I was hoping MP would fold to a bet? (overplayed here?)

[/ QUOTE ]

How else could you play this, don't tell me you seriously considered checking. A bet has got to be standard here, right?

You are betting with what is probably the best hand. Yes, you want UTG to call and MP to fold [getting you heads up against a maniac], but even more than that is you are betting to protect/define your hand (protecting if ahead, finding out where your at if behind).

[ QUOTE ]

Turn: (2.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero calls.
Well MP is gone, HU with villain, thought the check/call route would work here, particularly with his propensity with raise w/ A Hi, I didn't want to make it too expensive to get to showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]

If your sure he will bet if check to then maybe check-call is ok but I still prefer to bet out. Given how other hands have played out I am calling if he raises until I am shown he is not a complete maniac.

If he raises you will be getting almost 6-1 on a call, and I still believe you are good when you hit two pair or trips (8.2-1 odds on turn). When he does raise it sucks, but given your read of his propensity with raise w/ A High, you have to factor in the chance your ahead as well as the odds of improving, so the call of the raise isn't that bad.

[ QUOTE ]

River: (4.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, Hero calls.

River gives me 2 pair, I bet, he raises as usual, do you three bet here?? Villain caps, I call - what do you put him on now?

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on how you played this hand up till this point this should be an automatic check raise, Donk betting makes little sense.

If you do bet, agianst this opponent based on the previous hands youve included (provided you haven't left out any other important hands) this is a definent 3-bet/cap call.

*** I originally didn't see the river completing a backddoor flush so I even more prefer a check raise I can't give his original raise much respect based on his other play [thus the 3-bet] whereas I would give more respect to a re-raise after a check-raise [I don't know if my explanation makes sense] ***

Even a blind squirrel sometimes finds a nut but I'd be shocked if your 2 pair is not best more than 50% of the time. His play has been so stupid at this point it is worthless to try and put him on a hand.

Dopey [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]