holding the nuts, check raise?

I'm a little worried that I'm missing a lot of value in some of my nut hands. Take the following as an example:

I'm in BB with A-xs, 3 others see the flop. Flop comes 2 to my suit. I check, UTG bets and everyone calls. My flush is completed on the turn. I would love to check and hope UTG bets again so I can trap the field for 2 BB, but I normally get too scared that it gets checked through and just Bet out. I suppose it's easier to check if UTG had raised pre-flop whcih would make it more likely he will bet again.

What do you guys like doing in this scenario if you don't have any particular player reads yet?

[crunchy1]

So that's what they're thinking when they donk-bet.....

[thejameser]

[ QUOTE ]
So that's what they're thinking when they donk-bet.....

[/ QUOTE ]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Drewboy22]

Go ahead and bet out. Your problem here is on the flop. You should have check-rasied the flop with your strong draw. You would have trapped all of those players behind the original bettor for another small bet.

[sy_or_bust]

Bet the flop or checkraise, but don't check/call. Leading out is almost always better in an unraised pot, since you'll get paid off a lot better and can sometimes take win without improving. Of course, it depends on the board cards and your hand.

[ QUOTE ]
So that's what they're thinking when they donk-bet.....

[/ QUOTE ]

Crunchy, you clearly think the answer here is obvious, and are making some kind of veiled insult.
I'm here to learn and just because it's obvious to you doesn't mean its not a valid question. Every time you ask a question or opinion on these forums, there is someone more experienced than you who thinks the answer is obvious - guarenteed. So Chill.

[sy_or_bust]

Best to ignore that sort of post rather than address it. It wasn't such an awful post, but you weren't expected to understand it either. He's not attacking you.

The line you took (if you led the turn) is what gets called a "donkbet". When this comes in a multiway pot on a scare card, you unveil your hand and kill further action from most inferior hands. It's a bad line for a nut flush, but one many inexperienced players take because it is so natural. In general, beware the logic of "I don't want it checked around" when in EP on the turn after check/calling the flop.

[W. Deranged]

Dangerous Newmeister...

1. Don't be too offended by Crunch's comment. He's a great contributor here and is just joking. Expect a bit of "playful ribbing" on your first few posts. You seem to have the right idea, though; I'd just recommend growing a bit of a thick skin.

2. When you flop nut flush draws, if you don't have a clear idea that you are likely to get raised on your immediate left, you should very often be leading the flop. These hands have a ton of value to them. If you get three or more callers, you are winning on every call that goes in because you are going to win about 35% of the time. If players drop or you get raised and others are forced out, you get the nice advantage of cleaning up your tenuous A outs.

Nut flush draws are really strong hands in limit hold'em. If you have a big suited A (which likely has clean overcard outs as well), you really should just plan on getting as many bets in as possible if the pot is multiway (and you don't have particularly reason to believe an opponent has a set). If you have a smaller suited A, consider trying to drive some people out to clean up additional overcard outs.

3. The turn decision is where reads become pretty important. Can you expect the villain on your left to bet out? If so, a check-raise is absolutely the most correct play. If not villian, can you expect someone else? Is the table aggressive?

This is a case for making calculated risks. DO NOT always simply lead out, because doing so is costing you tons of value for those cases where you would get a bet on your left. Think about it this way: assume a check-raise will get about twice as much money in as a bet will; if that's true, than the check-raise needs to work only a little more than half as often as the bet does. So be willing to check-raise (note, this is a very simplified explanation, but it gets to the key idea).

Hope that helps. Stay dangerous.

[ QUOTE ]
Hope that helps. Stay dangerous.

[/ QUOTE ]
lol, I'm trying to become a lot more so! Thanks very much for the helpful posts, I'll be raising it up a storm next time.
Crunch, sorry about the rather harsh rebuttal if you were just joking, I'll take it with a pinch of salt next time.

[crunchy1]

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Crunch, sorry about the rather harsh rebuttal if you were just joking, I'll take it with a pinch of salt next time.

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I wasn't really ribbing or joking - I was actually serious (albeit somewhat sarcastically [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]).

Personally, I find it interesting to gain some insight into how inferior players are actually thinking when they make plays like this. I don't say this to be offensive towards you - I actually think that your seeming lack of experience and n00bish poker logic has contributed something to this forum.

If you've come to learn poker - you've come to the right place. Keep an open-mind, read often and be prepared to recieve much harsher commentary than that which you thought I doled out. Good Luck!! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]