Trouble in Paradise !!! Part III: Dynasty says ...

[BB King's]

... 'you should always play suited aces' ... Dynasty also have an opinion on how to play big suited connectors ...

Here are some hands from my big losing session ... I lost $41.50 in one session of 61 hands in the $1-game. I know I made more than one mistake ... Hopefully some of you guys can find some mistakes I didn't see myself ...

(1) I open-limp UTG w/ Ac8c. One calls behind me - Maniac raises - CO, the button, SB calls - BB folds. I call. So does the other Limper. 6 players - 13 sb in the pot.
FLOP: [ Jd 9d Th ]. I check behind SB. The limper bets - Maniac raises - CO folds - the button re-raises - SB calls. I fold ...

(2) There is one limper to me. I limp - 4 off the button - w/ Ad2d. Folded to Maniac in SB who raises - BB and limper calls. I re-raise. All calls. 4 players - 12 sb in pot. Flop and Turn is checked around.
RIVER: [ 5s Ts Kc * Th ] [ 3h ]. SB bets - BB folds - limper raises. I fold ...

(3) There are 2 limpers 2 me. I limp in late position w/ Ac2c. CO raises - the button, SB and BB folds - the 2 limpers call. I 3-bet - CO caps it - the 2 limpers call. I call. 4 players - 17.5 sb in pot.
FLOP: [ 3d 3c 7h ]. Checked to me - I bet - CO raises - we all call.
TURN: [ 3d 3c 7h ] [ 2h ]. Checked to CO who bets - first limper check-raises - second limper cold-calls. I fold ...

(4) I'm in CO w/ QhTh - I call behind 3 other limpers. SB raises - the 3 limpers call. I re-raise. SB and the 3 limpers all call. 5 players - 16 sb in pot. The flop is checked around.
TURN: [ 5d Jh 6d ] [ 8s ]. Checked to latest limper who bets. I call. So does one of the other limpers.
RIVER: [ 5d Jh 6d 8s ] [ As ]. The late limper bets again. I fold ...

(5) UTG limps. I limp 6 off the button w/ JcTc. 2 more limps behind me. SB completes. BB checks. 6 players in an un-raised pot.
FLOP: [ Jh 8s 2c ]. Checked to me - I bet. Only one of the limpers behind me calls.
TURN: [ Jh 8s 2c ] [ Ks ]. I bet - he calls.
RIVER: [ Jh 8s 2c Ks ] [ 8c ]. I bet - he raises - I call. He shows 8hQh (three of a kind).

(6) I limp UTG (7 off the button) w/ QdJd. UTG+1 raises - UTG+2 cold-calls - all else is folding. I 3-bet. UTG+1 caps it - UTG+2 cold-calls - again. And I call. 13.5 sb in pot.
FLOP: [ Kh Jc 9h ]. I bet. UTG+1 raises - we both call.
TURN: [ Kh Jc 9h ] [ 9d ]. I check. UTG+1 bets - we both call.
RIVER: [ Kh Jc 9h 9d ] [ Kc ]. I check. UTG+1 bets - we both call. UTG+1 shows AsAc !!! UTG+2 shows 2sQc !?!


Any comments appreciated !!!

[elysium]

awww bb. i only made it to the fourth hand. i can't take anymore.

[elysium]

but then again bb, if you ever heard me play guitar, you'd go crawling away.

[Louie Landale]

Your wierd call-then-3-bet before the flop SEEMED to buy you some "free cards" (which really aren't "free"), but only because these idiots don't notice. Don't expect that to work against any reasonable players. Otherwise all those 3-bets were HORRIBLE.

I think you should tend to wait until you actually HAVE something (or a draw) BEFORE you start flailing away.

The extra hands you "should" play in the loose games are good because of the implied odds you get from them: you lose a little EV before the flop, but figure to make up for it when you make the hand and you get extra loose calls (like Q high). If so, capping with these hands is a disaster since you are giving away too much early and evaporating your implied odds. Also, these extra hands do much better in games where the opponents are NOT raising very liberally. Judging from your post I'd conclude you were in a loose aggressive game, encouraging you to stick to the good ones.

- Louie

[Ed Miller]

I just read the preflop parts of your hands. Why on earth are you limp-reraising constantly with these implied odds-type hands? These are hands you want to see the flop cheaply with.

[Vehn]

Suited aces are crap.

[sucka]

I open-limp UTG w/ Ac8c.

I would have to have at least 5 or 6 players written guarantee to limp behind me for me to even THINK about limping UTG with this piece of cheese.

When you play this type of hand you are relying on flopping the nut flush draw - or some other monster type hand like AA8 or the like. In some cases you'll flop middle pair with a backdoor flush draw or something of the like, but even then you need a pretty good sized pot to have odds to hang on past the flop. Thus, this hand is a DRAWING hand and requires some company. Your early limp here was punished late and you ended up paying multiple bets to see the flop in horrible position with a total crap hand.

Big Axs hands are playable in any position in extremely loose-passive games where many people consistently see the flop for no raise. If you are in a tighter more aggressive game you need to restrict your playing these types of hands until you are sure that you have enough people in pre-flop to ensure that you are getting the appropriate odds to draw out a hand past the flop.

[Clarkmeister]

"I limp reraise"
"I limp reraise"
"I limp reraise"
"I limp reraise"


Uhhh, I think we can add an additinal maniac to the list of players in the game.

This game is clearly too aggressive [as are many (most?) online 1-2 and 2-4 games] to be open limping with these hands. Game texture is everything.

[rharless]

I went and looked up your other "Trouble in Paradise" threads to see some prior hands and advice. In each of these three threads, you lose $41.50 at the 1-2 game over the course of 61 hands. Is there a reason you always play exactly 61 hands a session? Or do you have a $41.50 "stop loss" limit? [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Hand 1 - fine

Hand 2 & 3 - Axs = drawing hand. Drawing hands want to see the flop cheaply. Don't limp-reraise with this hand.

Hand 4 - QTs = drawing hand. again, don't limp re-raise, particularly because the SB raised and people usually only will be raising out of the blinds with hands far better than QTs.

Given that you DID three-bet preflop, you should have bet that flop when you get two diamonds. This gives you a freecard on the turn if you choose to take it. Betting the turn after they check to you (if you had bet the flop they would have checked to you) is also feasible since you have picked up a gutshot to add to your flush/overcard outs.

Hand 5 - fine in my book. this just happens sometimes.

Hand 6 - Again, don't three bet this QJs. It's not strong enough to do that AND you are out of position against the power.

The bet on the flop is not absolutely awful, but I wouldn't do it. You have no reason to believe you are ahead and you want to see the turn as cheaply as possible. It is not passable as a value bet as you can only expect UTG+1 to raise. You were lucky UTG+2 called and stayed in.

What are your reasons for three-betting preflop in 2, 3, 4, 6?

The turn and river were ok given the size of the pot, but they're not at all the situations that you want to be in. Try not to paint yourself into these difficult corners until you get a little more practice. It's not very often that middle pair is enough to win a pot with that type of action in a 1-2 game.

My personal rule of thumb in low limit online games, for drawing hands like yours, is that I want to win about $8-$10 on every buck that I invest preflop. As such, I try to pay the minimum for these hands, and I want a lot of company for that flop. You, on the other hand, are investing the maximum amount preflop, and with your raises could be pushing out potential customers that will pay to see your flushes when you hit.

rh

[Dynasty]

There is nothing you can do to improve your play. No matter what you do, you will always lose $41.50 in 61 hands of a $1-game. Usually, I wouldn't believe in this type of superstition. But, sometimes the apparently illogical data can't be refuted.

Don't forget the end of the sentence:" ...in loose-passive games".

And stop making it 3-bets with Axs.