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#1
08-07-2005, 08:19 PM
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\"Do You Play Check and Raise?\"
I'm an East Coast player, who first learned stud in my teens, but in recent years moved hold em. As I became old enough to go to legally go to casinos, I've strarted off playing hold em because the stud games that were within my bank roll (low spread limits) were just unbearable-- slow, a lot of complaining, high variance. As my bankroll has grown, I've been able to sit in stud games at limits that are bearable, but still, I've found that stud players, as a whole are a little... different. They take a much more "classical" view toward playing poker than the new breed of hold em players, and many have been playing their "friendly" games in casinos for years and years.
To the point, though. Every mid limit stud game I've sat at, I get asked the same question within 2 minutes of sitting at the table, usually by one of the older gentlemen at the table. "Do you play check and raise?" I'm often conflicted about the best way to answer the question. The c/r is an important part of the game and hand protection, but saying "yes" bluntly has, in my experience, changed the mood of players towards me. They tend to focus a bit more on their play and identify me as a thinking player, not someone just there to have fun. For metagame considerations, these types of games are best when other players simply view me as part of their friendly game. The question is what's the best way to answer this question. I've tried saying things like "Oh yeah, you gotta sometimes. You know, to spice things up a bit."-- trying to make it sound like part of a fun, friendly game, but I'm not sure how well this works. Anyone else have experience dealing w/ this question and good ways to answer? 
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#2
08-07-2005, 08:37 PM
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Re: \"Do You Play Check and Raise?\"
I wonder if it wouldn't be +EV to say no and take their money in a check-raiseless game. I mean, how good can they be, even if you abstain from C/Ring? You're giving up a critical tactical weapon, but if it's anything like the low spread-limit games, they routinely give up any pretense of deception, betting with less than trips, etc. Seems like one could beat a game like that without using a full tactical arsenal.
And your assessment of the culture of low-limit East Coast stud games sounds spot-on.
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#3
08-07-2005, 10:06 PM
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Re: \"Do You Play Check and Raise?\"
I've thought about this, but I find two problems w/ it.
a) even if I can beat the game w/ out c/ring, it's a powerful enough tool that it is +EV. In other words, c/ring allows me to beat it better. b) I've put myself in a very precarious situation if another player sits down at the table and says that they do. I'm losing a ton of value in that situation.
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#4
08-07-2005, 10:27 PM
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Re: \"Do You Play Check and Raise?\"
I think you should tell them "Nahh, I don't play check and raise," and then sandbag them every opportunity you get.
That way, angered, they may try to make poorly thought out moves on you in an effort to teach you a lesson, you ill-mannered youngster. Gawks
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#6
08-07-2005, 11:10 PM
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Re: \"Do You Play Check and Raise?\"
Good to see someone actually is still a stud playa [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I just love a good 5-10 or 10-20 stud game. 20-40 with a $2 ante and $5 bring-in rocks too.
Actually, for your problem, try this line... "Oh me? I never bluff. Except when I don't got nothin'." Hopefully that will confuse them enough to drop it. If they don't, just tell them some bullchit and hope it don't come up. I mean the check-raise IS useful in stud, but it's much more useful in hold'em. So you might get an hour or two before you actually are faced with the situation of having to reveal that you were full of chit earlier when they asked you about check-raising. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] al
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#7
08-07-2005, 11:48 PM
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Re: \"Do You Play Check and Raise?\"
[ QUOTE ]
"Do you play check and raise?" [/ QUOTE ] I'd respond with "do you play 'bet and then if someone calls you get another card'?" I don't get it. Check/raising is as much a part of the game as anything else. Why wouldn't you allow it? I've heard this [censored] too, but I don't understand.
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#8
08-08-2005, 12:07 AM
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Re: \"Do You Play Check and Raise?\"
What, did everyone in this forum fail psychology?
option a) say I have no idea what you are talking about. Let him explain himself till he is blue in the face... he will be satisfied 8% of the time, even if you do raise as the game proceeds. B) Smile, wink, and be overly friendly while you say "I'll only raise if you don't", or "only when you check", or something silly like that. make friends, not enemies. Kill your opponents with kindness. TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
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#9
08-08-2005, 12:21 AM
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Re: \"Do You Play Check and Raise?\"
That was sort of my thought too.
Ask them what they mean by 'check and raise', then when they tell you, say "Oh, are you allowed to do that?" Then check raise whenever the opportunity presents itself, and thank the guy who asked the question for telling you about this 'new' strategy.
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