KK, called in two places on ragged paired flop, slow down?

Phoenix1010 · #1 08-06-2005, 04:40 PM

Party 50NL 6 max

MP is 60/14/2.25 with 40% WSD
BB is 61/14/1.1 with 25% WSD

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Button ($51.50)
SB ($265.40)
BB ($46.73)
Hero ($33.75)
MP ($59.05)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
Hero raises to $2, MP calls $2, 2 folds, BB calls $1.50.

Flop: ($6.25) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $4, MP calls $4, BB calls $4.

Turn: ($18.25) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero?

midget23 · #2 08-06-2005, 05:00 PM

I think you're still good here. I bet about $9 a 4 should reraise you here other overpairs are probably calling you down. You only have a little over half a buy in stack anyway so cant get hurt too bad by someone with a monster.

Phoenix1010 · #3 08-06-2005, 08:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you're still good here. I bet about $9 a 4 should reraise you here other overpairs are probably calling you down. You only have a little over half a buy in stack anyway so cant get hurt too bad by someone with a monster.

[/ QUOTE ]

Should I fold to a reraise? What do I do if I'm flatcalled?

-Phoenix

jacknine · #4 08-06-2005, 09:15 PM

I think you should raise more preflop so you get heads up. Then, with a flop and turn like this, you´re thinking about your valuebets instead of asking yourself "What if I get reraised or called".

mbburch · #5 08-07-2005, 04:29 AM

With a bunch of loose maniacs behind you, why not limp UTG and then wait for one of them to raise? I use this often and it helps to get most of the $ in preflop, which is what you want with a big pair. If no one raises you have to play very cautiously but more often then not some donkey will raise and three more will call. So when the action gets back around to you, there is already 12BB in the pot.

Phoenix1010 · #6 08-07-2005, 02:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you should raise more preflop so you get heads up. Then, with a flop and turn like this, you´re thinking about your valuebets instead of asking yourself "What if I get reraised or called".

[/ QUOTE ]

?
I open raised UTG for four times the big blind. Are you saying I should raise to 6 times the BB UTG with AJs and TT as well? Because that's what I would need to do to keep from hammering myself with reverse implied odds. And even if I do raise more, there's still no guarantee (hell it's not even likely) that I'll get it heads up. And finally, even if I do get heads up, I should still be thinking "what if I get rearaised or called?"

-Phoenix

Phoenix1010 · #7 08-07-2005, 02:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
With a bunch of loose maniacs behind you, why not limp UTG and then wait for one of them to raise? I use this often and it helps to get most of the $ in preflop, which is what you want with a big pair. If no one raises you have to play very cautiously but more often then not some donkey will raise and three more will call. So when the action gets back around to you, there is already 12BB in the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I generally don't like trying to limp reraise. I suppose this might have been a good spot for it. It doesn't really help with my postflop dilemma though.

-Phoenix

TexArcher · #8 08-07-2005, 02:13 PM

I think you're still fine on that flop almost every time, I would bet at least the pot on the flop, and then on the turn I'd bet the pot again, if you get check-raised you're probably in trouble...

fuzzbox · #9 08-07-2005, 02:22 PM

Bet full pot on the flop, and then push the turn.

If I have that size stack, then somebody is gonna have to show me a hand that beats KK.

If you bet say 7 on the flop, and get two callers, then its 28 in there, and you have 33.75-9=24.75 left. Stick it in on any turn, you are probably good.

#10 08-07-2005, 02:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party 50NL 6 max

MP is 60/14/2.25 with 40% WSD
BB is 61/14/1.1 with 25% WSD

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Button ($51.50)
SB ($265.40)
BB ($46.73)
Hero ($33.75)
MP ($59.05)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
Hero raises to $2, MP calls $2, 2 folds, BB calls $1.50.

Flop: ($6.25) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $4, MP calls $4, BB calls $4.

Turn: ($18.25) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero?

[/ QUOTE ]

this is a tough spot to be in. I think the preflop raise was fine. I do think that you need to bet 6-7 on the flop. With two others in the hand, I'm going to bet that flop real aggressive. I think that's part of the problem with this hand. You bet weak enough that you may have encouraged people to call with some silly crap. You ahve to put pressure on someone with 8-8 or A-7. Your smallish bet didn't really put much pressure on them, and actually it looked like a scared A-K continuation bet. Having said that, I'm really worried about a pair on the board and TWO callers. I probably check the turn and see what MP does. If he bets out pretty strong AND BB calls, I fold. And I think there's a good chance that MP bets and BB raises. If MP bets out less than the pot and BB folds, I'm probably putting the rest of my stack in. MP I would guess has a smaller overpair. It's the BB that worries me with that 4. If you check and MP checks, I'm probably calling a moderate bet by the BB on the river because now you induced his bluff by showing weakness.

So in sum, I check the turn and see what the action brings. Fold if there's action and they're still both in it.