Catastrophic outcome -- can this flop play have been WRONG?

JimmyV · #1 08-02-2005, 12:50 PM

Villians in this hand are Tweedledum and Tweedledee -- both rouoghly 27/12, with postflop aggression factors of 1.2 and 1.8 respectively. MP1 has a positive winrate in hands I've seen of his, MP2 a rather startling high negative one )-3.4).

I think you'll agree that this hand went badly considering the cards involved. Any suggestions?

Party Poker (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
7 folds.
2 folds, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, blinds fold.

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, Hero 3-bets, both call.

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)

Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)

Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Final Pot:

Results :
Hero has Ad Kc (flush, ace high).
MP1 has Kd Qc (flush, king high).
MP2 has Jc Qd (flush, queen high).

Hero wins a $NOT NEARLY ENOUGH pot.

Incidentally, why is bisonbison's hand converter not working for beans these days?

All suggestions about flop or turn are welcome. Maybe I should have gone for the 'I turn over my hand' turn checkraise.....

JimmyV

andyfox · #2 08-02-2005, 01:06 PM

I dunno, I'm pretty happy when I turn the nuts and get called in two out of two places and then get called again in two out of two places on the river. Especially when I raised pre-flop with A-K and they cold-called with K-Q and Q-J. Guys are generally hesitant to do anything aggressive without the nuts on a 4-to-a-suit board against two opponents. Anyway, this outcome doesn't fit my definition of "catastrophic" by a long shot. You wouldn't, in all likelihood, have made any more by doing anything different on the turn because if the King-high flush had raised, you likely loose the Queen-high guy.

DcifrThs · #3 08-02-2005, 01:08 PM

dude, what are you whinning about? monster hand. you win big pot.

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

-barron

JimmyV · #4 08-02-2005, 01:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You wouldn't, in all likelihood, have made any more by doing anything different on the turn because if the King-high flush had raised, you likely loose the Queen-high guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

But that would be something different the OTHER guy did. I'm thinking now that if I checkraise the turn I get two more big bets, as MP1 can't probably resist betting and of course neither is folding for one bet at a time.

Anyone opposed to checkraising the turn given the representation I did on the flop?

JV

JimmyV · #5 08-02-2005, 01:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
dude, what are you whinning about? monster hand. you win big pot.

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

-barron

[/ QUOTE ]

I would like to have played it better, if possible.

La Brujita · #6 08-02-2005, 01:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone opposed to checkraising the turn given the representation I did on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't the ace of diamonds one of the most likely cards you hold given the way you played the flop?

I don't like a turn check at all. Let bad players call with their weak diamonds.

TheBusiness · #7 08-02-2005, 02:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
dude, what are you whinning about? monster hand. you win big pot.

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

-barron

[/ QUOTE ]

I would like to have played it better, if possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

By going for a turn or river checkraise, you may either lose one caller or risk them checking behind you. I think you should be happy with the way this hand went. You got called by both villains, twice. Yes you want one of them to raise you when you have the nuts, but since they didn't, you did the best you could.

Jeffage · #8 08-02-2005, 02:32 PM

If you consider this a catastrophe, you must have never truly run bad in your entire life. You played it well and won a decent pot. How much action do you expect when you have the Ace of trump on a 4-flush board?

Jeff

damaniac · #9 08-02-2005, 02:34 PM

Of course, much of the time they will have hands that they will call down with but maybe not bet themselves or call a c/r (such as 99 with 9d or two pair or something), and by going for the c/r you lose bets. If you KNEW what their hands were, you MAY have been able to find a better line. But since you didn't, playing it straight up is the best.

On a side note, looking at this as a catastrophe makes me look fondly upon bad beat posts. Come up with something better next time.

TStoneMBD · #10 08-02-2005, 03:23 PM

its perfect, you are being results oriented.