Value betting, when do you stop, if ever??

#1 07-31-2005, 06:16 PM

First post, hope it meets standards. Having a really bad downswing right now so I am rereading SSH and these forums. Figured I would post a specific example to see if I am playing correctly or leaving bets on the table.

Ok, my hand and questions have to do with value betting. I am trying to understand when to apply this concept and if you get reraised do you continue or when do you stop.

In this hand, to start with I would like to say I usually do not play 69s to a raise out of the BB, but with so many callers and only 1 bet with no risk of being raised I took a chance. I like my play on the flop that I do not reraise when it comes back around. This leaves the person to my left as the aggressor and allows me to raise the turn for a full round of bigger bets with more people in. I am not interested in eliminating people since I have a flush draw and a bd str8 draw. Then I picked up the OE str8 draw on the turn. So my question is the turn play, should I reraise for value when it comes back to me with 15 outs or call and see the river cheaper for 1 bet less?

EDIT: Sorry about the original post, problems with converter. As far as reads, only 4th hand on table. Table averages ~45% VPIP, ~3% pf raise. So very fishy.

Party Poker .5/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button Calls, SB Calls, Hero Calls

Flop: (16 SB) A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (8 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 Calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, Hero Calls.

Turn: (15 BB) 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ">(7 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls, SB calls, Hero raises, UTG+1 3-bets, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, CO calls, SB calls, Hero??? (30 BB so far)

Should hero cap or just call to see the river?

shadow29 · #2 07-31-2005, 06:25 PM

wtf?

Online247 · #3 07-31-2005, 06:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
First post, hope it meets standards. Having a really bad downswing right now so I am rereading SSH and these forums. Figured I would post a specific example to see if I am playing correctly or leaving bets on the table.

Ok, my hand and questions have to do with value betting. I am trying to understand when to apply this concept and if you get reraised do you continue or when do you stop.

In this hand, to start with I would like to say I usually do not play 69s to a raise out of the BB, but with so many callers and only 1 bet with no risk of being raised I took a chance. I like my play on the flop that I do not reraise when it comes back around. This leaves the person to my left as the aggressor and allows me to raise the turn for a full round of bigger bets with more people in. I am not interested in eliminating people since I have a flush draw and a bd str8 draw. Then I picked up the OE str8 draw on the turn. So my question is the turn play, should I reraise for value when it comes back to me with 15 outs or call and see the river cheaper for 1 bet less?
 
 

Party Poker .5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) <a href="http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi" target="_blank">converter</a> Preflop: Hero is BB with 6<img src="/images/graemlins/diamond.gif" alt="" />, 9<img src="/images/graemlins/diamond.gif" alt="" />. UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button Calls, SB Calls, Hero Calls Flop: (16 SB) A<img src="/images/graemlins/heart.gif" alt="" />, 4<img src="/images/graemlins/diamond.gif" alt="" />, 5<img src="/images/graemlins/diamond.gif" alt="" /> (8 players) SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 Calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, Hero Calls. Turn: (15 BB) 7<img src="/images/graemlins/club.gif" alt="" /> (7 players) SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls, SB calls, Hero raises, UTG+1 3-bets, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, CO calls, SB calls, Hero??? (30 BB so far)

Should hero cap or just call to see the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

w/o reads I just call. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Jaran · #4 07-31-2005, 06:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
First post, hope it meets standards. Having a really bad downswing right now so I am rereading SSH and these forums. Figured I would post a specific example to see if I am playing correctly or leaving bets on the table.

Ok, my hand and questions have to do with value betting. I am trying to understand when to apply this concept and if you get reraised do you continue or when do you stop.

In this hand, to start with I would like to say I usually do not play 69s to a raise out of the BB, but with so many callers and only 1 bet with no risk of being raised I took a chance. I like my play on the flop that I do not reraise when it comes back around. This leaves the person to my left as the aggressor and allows me to raise the turn for a full round of bigger bets with more people in. I am not interested in eliminating people since I have a flush draw and a bd str8 draw. Then I picked up the OE str8 draw on the turn. So my question is the turn play, should I reraise for value when it comes back to me with 15 outs or call and see the river cheaper for 1 bet less?
 
 

Party Poker .5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) <a href="http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi" target="_blank">converter</a> Preflop: Hero is BB with 6<img src="/images/graemlins/diamond.gif" alt="" />, 9<img src="/images/graemlins/diamond.gif" alt="" />. UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button Calls, SB Calls, Hero Calls Flop: (16 SB) A<img src="/images/graemlins/heart.gif" alt="" />, 4<img src="/images/graemlins/diamond.gif" alt="" />, 5<img src="/images/graemlins/diamond.gif" alt="" /> (8 players) SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 Calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, Hero Calls. Turn: (15 BB) 7<img src="/images/graemlins/club.gif" alt="" /> (7 players) SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls, SB calls, Hero raises, UTG+1 3-bets, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, CO calls, SB calls, Hero??? (30 BB so far)

Should hero cap or just call to see the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

w/o reads I just call. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

nh

-Jaran

tiltaholic · #5 07-31-2005, 06:35 PM

ok ok...

Hero is BB with 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
folded to UTG+1 who raises. 5 coldcallers. SB calls. Hero calls.

Flop (8 people. 16 SB) A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB checks, Hero bets. UTG+1 raises. all call except button. Hero calls.

Turn (7 players, 15 BB) 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB checks. Hero checks. UTG+1 bets. call, call fold, call call, Hero raises. UTG+1 reraises. fold, call, call, call, Hero????

tiltaholic · #6 07-31-2005, 06:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
First post, hope it meets standards. Having a really bad downswing right now so I am rereading SSH and these forums. Figured I would post a specific example to see if I am playing correctly or leaving bets on the table.

Ok, my hand and questions have to do with value betting. I am trying to understand when to apply this concept and if you get reraised do you continue or when do you stop.

In this hand, to start with I would like to say I usually do not play 69s to a raise out of the BB, but with so many callers and only 1 bet with no risk of being raised I took a chance. I like my play on the flop that I do not reraise when it comes back around. This leaves the person to my left as the aggressor and allows me to raise the turn for a full round of bigger bets with more people in. I am not interested in eliminating people since I have a flush draw and a bd str8 draw. Then I picked up the OE str8 draw on the turn. So my question is the turn play, should I reraise for value when it comes back to me with 15 outs or call and see the river cheaper for 1 bet less?

EDIT: Sorry about the original post, problems with converter. As far as reads, only 4th hand on table. Table averages ~45% VPIP, ~3% pf raise. So very fishy.

Party Poker .5/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button Calls, SB Calls, Hero Calls

Flop: (16 SB) A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (8 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 Calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, Hero Calls.

Turn: (15 BB) 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ">(7 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls, SB calls, Hero raises, UTG+1 3-bets, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, CO calls, SB calls, Hero??? (30 BB so far)

Should hero cap or just call to see the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

hello. welcome.

preflop is good.
don't bet the flop. but miraculously they all called.
i'd cap the turn. gambool!

cold_cash · #7 07-31-2005, 06:48 PM

Check raise the flop.

3-bet the flop.

I would probably cap the turn w/ 5 opponents and ~10 outs.

I have a link somewhere to an Izmet web page that talks about value raising draws, and how many opponents you need with so many outs, etc.. It's good stuff. If I can find it I'll post it.

Play the river smartly if you hit your flush and the board pairs. Flush over flush wouldn't be too big a surprise here, eithr.

#8 07-31-2005, 08:38 PM

cold_cash, please post that link if you can find it. I know it would be helpful for me and I am sure others.

I think my biggest problem is not capitalizing on my good draws. Really draw play in general, don't know at what pot/# of players to raise for value vs seeing more cards cheaply.

anybody care to explain what the cutoff point is.

xGoreDudex · #9 07-31-2005, 08:56 PM

Now I'm no carpel'tunnel, but why did u cold call an earlyposition with 69s? a few callers, but I don't see pot odds in this...please someone correct me.

#10 07-31-2005, 08:59 PM

I think pf is an easy call. It is not cold, I was BB so it was only 1 SB with no chance of a raise behind me. With 8 people in that is 16:1 pot odds.