7 Card Stud Hi/Low split question

I am new to the forum but I have a question about a game that one of our weekly poker game member plays. It is basically a 7 card stud hi/low split game but the twist that he adds is that straights and flushes count so the best low is 6432A and you declare after the last round of betting(creating another round of betting) by either going high, low or both. What is bothering me is that straights and flushes count (and the effect of that) and that I do not seem to do well in this game. Too much hokey pokey. Is this game fair with the straights and flushes counting and any tips on how to win would be appreciated. Thanks

[kmvenne]

Why wouldn't everyone just declare "both" every time? Do you have to actually scoop or get rewarded nothing? Typical KC lowball strategy should let you know what low draws have straight blockers on the occasions you think a straight might not drag the high (flush blockers are rather irrevelant I'd imagine in a stud game), but that's pretty much where the rest of it changes. I'd imagine a 7-5 low or better draw with the ace makes a hand playable going low, it would take a lot for me to leave home without the A as well. Aces and 6's seem to be key low components, those two with a two nut flush seems playable to me, or anything better involving those two.

[MarkGritter]

[ QUOTE ]
I am new to the forum but I have a question about a game that one of our weekly poker game member plays. It is basically a 7 card stud hi/low split game but the twist that he adds is that straights and flushes count so the best low is 6432A and you declare after the last round of betting(creating another round of betting) by either going high, low or both. What is bothering me is that straights and flushes count (and the effect of that) and that I do not seem to do well in this game. Too much hokey pokey. Is this game fair with the straights and flushes counting and any tips on how to win would be appreciated. Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the net effect is to reduce the frequency at which you should try for a scoop. (To answer kmvenne's question, usually in declare games you must win both sides when you declare both or get nothing--- a lower hand gets the half you 'won', or else it stays in the pot for next time.)

In normal hi/lo you need only five good cards to make a good two-way hand, while in this variant you will need six. (For example, if you have 6432A spades, you need another low card.)

Normally only low hands are playable in split pots without a qualifier, but this rule might make playing high-only hands attractive again, because scoops are harder to achieve.

Unfortunately I am not a stud expert, you might have better luck explaining this variant in the Stud forum and see what they think.

[timprov]

If it's still an 8 qualifier for low, you should generally just play for high, unless you get three suited babies.

Try to convince him to play by real KC lowball rules, and make A high, but keep the 8 qualifier. That way anyone who plays for low is a sucker.

[randomstumbl]

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Try to convince him to play by real KC lowball rules, and make A high, but keep the 8 qualifier. That way anyone who plays for low is a sucker.

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Declare is very different from normal stud/8. It's almost never played with a qualifier. It just doesn't make sense to have a qualifer.

The biggest strategy change is in choosing which way to go. It's often wise to just stay in and go low with total garbage because two other players are obviously both going to go high.

With straights and flushes counting against the player, good lows will be fewer between. Therefore, you are better able to judge when to go low to escape with the half the pot that is being forfeited by others.

If you're decent at regular stud hi/lo or stud/8, I have a few ideas of possible leaks.

You might be overvaluing some hands. 2345 is not as great as it would be. You can make a bad straight or an okay low, but not much else. It's still playable, but it's not a monster.

The biggest change is the declare. You need to be able to predict what your opponents will declare. If you can escape with one side of the pot unchallenged, just declare for that side.

Betting after the declare is ridiculiously complicated. If you have one side locked up, you obviously never stop raising. There are many situations where you can get caught in the middle with a hand that has some chance of winning. Your position on the last round is incredibly important because of that.

Also, as has been said, scooping should be pretty rare. You want to be almost certain to win both sides if one is a lock.

Predicting your opponents declaration and hand strength is more important than ANY other part of the game. With that information, your cards will become much less important. This game will destroy people who don't closely watch their opponents.

Edited to add: if this is a sequential declare with the dealer acting last in a dealers choice game, you have no chance at winning in the game. The dealer advantage is ridiculious in sequential declare games.

[NYCNative]

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It is basically a 7 card stud hi/low split game but the twist that he adds is that straights and flushes count so the best low is 6432A...

[/ QUOTE ]How silly. If I had A234567 I would say that my low *was* A2346. It's the lowest five cards so except in cases where you *don't* have a low at all (and if you have a straight or flush, how *can* you have a low?) you disregard the offending straight or flush.

What's next, some Baseball or Queen Follow The Queen?