Fold QQ on a ragged flop?

JTG51 · #1 03-07-2003, 01:06 AM

This hand is from a lousy 5/10 game. I'd move if there was another game to chose from. I'd leave if I didn't really like playing poker. The game has been very passive with almost no post flop action.

UTG is a reasonable player with reasonable raising standards. MP is a calling station.

UTG raises, MP 3-bets. It's folded to me in the BB, I have Q [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] . I see UTG grab enough chips to cap it, I call. He caps and we both call.

Flop: 8 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img]

UTG bets, MP raises, I fold. How'd I do on both streets?

anatta · #2 03-07-2003, 01:50 AM

I think you made a good read based upon your opponents. You gotta figure your up against at least 1 AA or KK. I read that its 25:1 that you are up against AA if you have KK. Its gotta be close to 8% randomly that your QQ is beat. With the betting sequence here, and these players, you are in trouble. Good fold.

Preflop, folding from the BB with QQ is a bit much to ask of anyone, but you did catch a tell, and if you know that Mr. Reasonable only caps with AA or KK, you could make this tough fold.

JTG51 · #3 03-07-2003, 02:17 AM

...if you know that Mr. Reasonable only caps with AA or KK, you could make this tough fold.

I agree with you 100%. There are some opponents that I would fold against in a spot like this. Unfortunately, I didn't know UTG that well. My initial description probably made it sound like I knew him better than I really did. I had never seen him before this session. In a couple of hours of play, I hadn't seen him get way out of line. That's pretty much all I knew.

thequietone · #4 03-07-2003, 02:42 AM

JT- I can't say I would lay down qq, but if you were not willing to play a flop with no overcards then you need to let it go pre-flop when you catch sight of the guy preparing to cap it. You were not getting proper odds if you were only playing for a set.

JTG51 · #5 03-07-2003, 02:48 AM

You were not getting proper odds if you were only playing for a set.

I agree, but I wasn't only playing for a set. If MP had just called, I probably would have check raised. It wasn't the preflop cap that convinced me to fold. It was the fact that a passive MP raised that flop against a preflop capper.

Still, I think folding before the flop might have been my best play. I'm at least as interested in opinions on that as I am in opinions on my flop play.

Ed Miller · #6 03-07-2003, 03:23 AM

I don't understand why you are calling with QQ preflop if you plan to muck it on a flop like that.

JTG51 · #7 03-07-2003, 03:32 AM

I'm not sure I understand either. That's why I posted the hand.

I wasn't planning on mucking on a flop like that until MP raised. I think he would 3-bet AK, JJ, TT, or maybe 99 preflop. I'm 100% sure he wouldn't raise AK on the flop. I'm almost as sure that he wouldn't raise with JJ or TT. Does that make a little more sense? I'm not sure that it does.

Are you saying you would fold preflop, or that you wouldn't fold on the flop?

Toro · #8 03-07-2003, 10:36 AM

Suppose you capped it preflop, this would have cost the same as it was played. Now you bet the flop and if you now get raised you know for sure the QQ is no good and you can fold.

Nottom · #9 03-07-2003, 10:43 AM

I don't like it at all ... if you are going to fold on the flop, you should have folded pre-flop cause you certainly weren't getting odds to spike the set if you knew you were beat. I know its tough to lay down those queens, but if you feel strongly enough about to lay them down here then you should have saved yourself the 2BB preflop.

Mike Gallo · #10 03-07-2003, 12:02 PM

I would have reraised preflop, and probably folded the flop also. It appears you had a very good read on opponent.

Good laydown

MG