On knowing what's going on...

Nfinity · #1 07-28-2005, 04:32 PM

I'm sorry folks, it rules. You can have all the HUD info out there and still not have the slightest clue what's going down at your tables. Some of you are saying "yeah we heard it before, reads are important blah blah blah..." But very few of you actually realixe that when you get your opponents tendencies you will have these moments where you say to yourself:

"Oh snap, If I do this, I will pick up this pot right now."

I submit some of my examples from this morning:

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

MP bets any flop that hits him when checked to. SB will bet/donkbet any Scary Turn card. I've seen villian bet/ Fold before, but not necessarily in one of these bluffing situations.
Preflop: Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP checks.

Turn: (1.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP folds, SB folds.

Final Pot: 4.50 BB

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Button has been raising light and folding at or before the river the entire time I've been here. I start isolating him with damn near any 2. BB following along was kind of scary but the texture of the flop was perfect for taking another shot.
Preflop: Hero is SB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, Button calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, Button calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button folds.

Final Pot: 6.50 BB

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Button has been very proud of his ability to make the "goodfolds", telling everyone what he has before doing it. One memorable was folding what he said was AA in a near $40 pot on river flush card that was bet and raised before him. MP is straightforward with Trips. He will raise the street he made them on. He might CR them but that is the extent of his abilities with them. On the Flop I saw an amazing opportunity for a Turn Bluff. If MP raised behind me the plan was to Check/ Fold the Turn UI. When he calls I figure I'm good to go. My Turn Bluff plan turned into a really good Turn semi-bluff, but I was honestly raising any Turn here. Right before folding Button shoots a "tens" into the chat. I really want to believe him.
Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
MP calls, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero calls, MP calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, Button bets, Hero calls, MP calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, Button bets, Hero raises, MP folds, Button folds.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

gharp · #2 07-28-2005, 04:40 PM

Amen, brother. I think it really is true that, to move up in limits, you need to start playing the players much more than the cards.

Now if I could just do it...

(Third hand is awesome, by the way) [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Absolution · #3 07-28-2005, 04:40 PM

On the last hand you're representing trips and he's buying it? :P What's your plan on the river if he calls and you brick?

irishpint · #4 07-28-2005, 04:45 PM

this is great dude, if you can be sure about what you're doing working. i've raised a turn like hand 3 w/ what you have and then the river gets checked through or you bet and he calls and all of a sudden you have no cred and need to start playing differently. noticing this is important. when i make a bluff bet/raise attempt it doesn't work the last thing i want is to show it down. "he raised a scary turn w/ KJ? i'm not going to fold to a bet of his the rest of the day". now we can't be our draws, middle pairs, continuation bet or bluff scare cards and the entire table is turning into a thinking player going against us.

Nfinity · #5 07-28-2005, 04:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
On the last hand you're representing trips and he's buying it? :P What's your plan on the river if he calls and you brick?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pack it in. Check or Fold.

Deamon2 · #6 07-28-2005, 04:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
this is great dude, if you can be sure about what you're doing working. i've raised a turn like hand 3 w/ what you have and then the river gets checked through or you bet and he calls and all of a sudden you have no cred and need to start playing differently. noticing this is important. when i make a bluff bet/raise attempt it doesn't work the last thing i want is to show it down. "he raised a scary turn w/ KJ? i'm not going to fold to a bet of his the rest of the day". now we can't be our draws, middle pairs, continuation bet or bluff scare cards and the entire table is turning into a thinking player going against us.

[/ QUOTE ]

isn't being called down by everyone a good thing? we just need to value bet our brains out.

irishpint · #7 07-28-2005, 04:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is great dude, if you can be sure about what you're doing working. i've raised a turn like hand 3 w/ what you have and then the river gets checked through or you bet and he calls and all of a sudden you have no cred and need to start playing differently. noticing this is important. when i make a bluff bet/raise attempt it doesn't work the last thing i want is to show it down. "he raised a scary turn w/ KJ? i'm not going to fold to a bet of his the rest of the day". now we can't be our draws, middle pairs, continuation bet or bluff scare cards and the entire table is turning into a thinking player going against us.

[/ QUOTE ]

isn't being called down by everyone a good thing? we just need to value bet our brains out.

[/ QUOTE ]

if the entire table plays different against us knowing we're trying to be sneaky we have to be careful. in addition, if everyone is going to call down on us we can be raising the turn in hand 1, 3, etc. if they are going to call us showdown we need to have something to show.

Bradyams · #8 07-28-2005, 04:51 PM

Amazing post. I'm pretty bad with reads for the most part. I usually just notice the LAGs, and the weak-tights. I never get specific reads. This post however inspires me to do so. I think this is the type of play that seperates the winners from the crushers. Thank you for showing these hands, and showing that specific reads are very important to truely crush the game.

Nfinity · #9 07-28-2005, 04:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is great dude, if you can be sure about what you're doing working. i've raised a turn like hand 3 w/ what you have and then the river gets checked through or you bet and he calls and all of a sudden you have no cred and need to start playing differently. noticing this is important. when i make a bluff bet/raise attempt it doesn't work the last thing i want is to show it down. "he raised a scary turn w/ KJ? i'm not going to fold to a bet of his the rest of the day". now we can't be our draws, middle pairs, continuation bet or bluff scare cards and the entire table is turning into a thinking player going against us.

[/ QUOTE ]

isn't being called down by everyone a good thing? we just need to value bet our brains out.

[/ QUOTE ]

if the entire table plays different against us knowing we're trying to be sneaky we have to be careful. in addition, if everyone is going to call down on us we can be raising the turn in hand 1, 3, etc. if they are going to call us showdown we need to have something to show.

[/ QUOTE ]

The villians that end up doing this kind of thinking end up either completely missing the mark or overthinking themselves into oblivion. Either way they are out of their element, out of their comfort zone and I profit by it.

irishpint · #10 07-28-2005, 04:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is great dude, if you can be sure about what you're doing working. i've raised a turn like hand 3 w/ what you have and then the river gets checked through or you bet and he calls and all of a sudden you have no cred and need to start playing differently. noticing this is important. when i make a bluff bet/raise attempt it doesn't work the last thing i want is to show it down. "he raised a scary turn w/ KJ? i'm not going to fold to a bet of his the rest of the day". now we can't be our draws, middle pairs, continuation bet or bluff scare cards and the entire table is turning into a thinking player going against us.

[/ QUOTE ]

isn't being called down by everyone a good thing? we just need to value bet our brains out.

[/ QUOTE ]

if the entire table plays different against us knowing we're trying to be sneaky we have to be careful. in addition, if everyone is going to call down on us we can be raising the turn in hand 1, 3, etc. if they are going to call us showdown we need to have something to show.

[/ QUOTE ]

The villians that end up doing this kind of thinking end up either completely missing the mark or overthinking themselves into oblivion. Either way they are out of their element, out of their comfort zone and I profit by it.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree, but my point i seem to be failing to make is just to be careful. YOU TOO can think yourself out of the $.