Ace-crap from CO with 5 players....

Raiser · #1 07-28-2005, 10:09 AM

1) Bad PF raise? Is this a fold?
2) How much do you bet on the flop?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (5 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero (t1082)
Button (t1810)
SB (t1821)
BB (t1214)
UTG (t2073)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to t150, 1 fold, SB calls t125, 1 fold.

Flop: (t350) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero???

tigerite · #2 07-28-2005, 10:12 AM

Fold preflop at this blind level.

mlagoo · #3 07-28-2005, 10:41 AM

I think the PF raise is ok.

On the flop, I'm debating between betting 2/3 pot and folding to an allin, or just making a big overbet allin to take it down (because so many turn cards scare you).

I really don't want to bet and get reraised here, so I think I might just push the flop. If he has an overpair, NP, I'll spike an ace on the turn.

I'm real into overbetting lately. Not sure it's a good thing.

edit: I wanted to ask: Would anyone bet 2/3 pot and CALL a C/R allin here?

tigerite · #4 07-28-2005, 10:47 AM

So now you've gone from a preflop raise to steal with a hand like A6s to a push on a 6 high flop. I really don't like this at all. I also don't think the 75 makes enough of a difference to your stack to be risking about 15% of your stack to get it preflop, which is why I would go for a fold.

me1tdown · #5 07-28-2005, 10:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So now you've gone from a preflop raise to steal with a hand like A6s to a push on a 6 high flop. I really don't like this at all. I also don't think the 75 makes enough of a difference to your stack to be risking about 15% of your stack to get it preflop, which is why I would go for a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

For giggles I ran the hand through poker stove for both the preflop and the flop against a random hand in the SB. I was a bit surprised at the results and find myself, once again, saying thanks to Tigerite for plugging leaks.

PREFLOP:
2,097,572,400 games 6.589 secs 318,344,574 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 65.3927 % 64.40% 01.00% { AsJs }
Hand 2: 34.6073 % 33.61% 01.00% { random }

FLOP:
1,070,190 games 0.380 secs 2,816,289 games/sec

Board: 6h 3h 4d
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 43.8808 % 42.21% 01.67% { AsJs }
Hand 2: 56.1192 % 54.45% 01.67% { random }

tigerite · #6 07-28-2005, 10:59 AM

Hang on the OP has A6s, not AJs.. I like it a LOT more with AJs.

Er.. the preflop raise obviously, not the push on flop

me1tdown · #7 07-28-2005, 11:14 AM

My bad. Here are the amended results ( and I like the flop percentages better this time):
PREFLOP:
8,390,289,600 games 25.927 secs 323,612,049 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 59.9058 % 58.18% 01.73% { A6s }
Hand 2: 40.0942 % 38.37% 01.73% { random }

FLOP:
3,210,570 games 1.121 secs 2,864,023 games/sec

Board: 6h 3h 4d
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 65.3501 % 63.90% 01.45% { A6s }
Hand 2: 34.6499 % 33.20% 01.45% { random }

tigerite · #8 07-28-2005, 11:17 AM

Yeah, but I doubt SB has a truly 'random' hand. Unless he's a total donk, that is. I suppose once you've got to this point on the flop that a bet of some sort is in order, but I really don't like all-in. Then again I wouldn't be in this position in the first place but, I guess it's a matter of taste. The problem is preflop if one of them comes over the top, you can't call, so you just wasted 15% of your stack and put it out there with no intention of backing it up. That's why I don't like this play.

pooh74 · #9 07-28-2005, 11:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
1) Bad PF raise? Is this a fold?
2) How much do you bet on the flop?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (5 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero (t1082)
Button (t1810)
SB (t1821)
BB (t1214)
UTG (t2073)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to t150, 1 fold, SB calls t125, 1 fold.

Flop: (t350) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero???

[/ QUOTE ]

Poker stove results aside because the SB called and he doesnt have a truly random hand...in fact, unless he is a donk, i assume Im behind after his call when I hold A6 which is why i dont raise with it unless the blinds are bigger or I'm in the money already/both

That said, Ill bet out 2/3 of this pot and hope to take it down right there...I got into this mess, now ill play the hand im dealt, TPTK is the best result i could want with this crappy hand....Ill go broke now if I have to (reads aside). I avoid this mess by mucking PF when blinds are 25/50. The PF is key here because I dont feel comfortable talking about this flop bc I shouldnt be there in the first place.

me1tdown · #10 07-28-2005, 11:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but I doubt SB has a truly 'random' hand. Unless he's a total donk, that is. I suppose once you've got to this point on the flop that a bet of some sort is in order, but I really don't like all-in. Then again I wouldn't be in this position in the first place but, I guess it's a matter of taste. The problem is preflop if one of them comes over the top, you can't call, so you just wasted 15% of your stack and put it out there with no intention of backing it up. That's why I don't like this play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well it's the %15 number that grabbed my attention. I made a real donk play last night defending a blind that ultimately cost me my stack. I think that if I had been paying attention to the details I would have let it go, but then it wouldn't have been a donk play...